It does not look good for Target. Web Accessibility news

[dorayme]

Sounds like typical Travis - another thing he got wrong! LOL!

This is not at all nice, Mr Stuckle! It looks to be plain mean.
Surely he has not offended you that badly?

I think I am going to have to take you under my wing. Last night
I saw a program for the worst of the worst prisoners in a
Phillipines jail. The governor introduced dancing to the inmates.
They figured on UTube in the end, they became friendly and happy
from formerly being mean and violent.

What I am saying to you Jerry here is that you have nothing to
fear from me taking you into my fold. I am instituting some novel
character building programs of my own. It is true that I have
resorted to some less dainty practices in the past, (like when I
sent men to find the guys who beat up poor Luigi on the German
French border, like the many times I have sent Officer Bud White
to deal with poor Boji...), but this program has given me fresh
ideas.

You like dancing (I am thinking, stirring "gym" pop beats...)?

 

[Jerry Stuckle]

This is not at all nice, Mr Stuckle! It looks to be plain mean.
Surely he has not offended you that badly?

I think I am going to have to take you under my wing. Last night
I saw a program for the worst of the worst prisoners in a
Phillipines jail. The governor introduced dancing to the inmates.
They figured on UTube in the end, they became friendly and happy
from formerly being mean and violent.

What I am saying to you Jerry here is that you have nothing to
fear from me taking you into my fold. I am instituting some novel
character building programs of my own. It is true that I have
resorted to some less dainty practices in the past, (like when I
sent men to find the guys who beat up poor Luigi on the German
French border, like the many times I have sent Officer Bud White
to deal with poor Boji...), but this program has given me fresh
ideas.

You like dancing (I am thinking, stirring "gym" pop beats...)?

ROFLMAO! Troll!

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
(e-mail address removed)
==================

 

[Travis Newbury]

There is no Archerville in Australia as far as I know?

My bad, it is Archerfield.

If I am still alive next spring, considering the present flu I am
experiencing, ... ?

I got my flu shot 2 weeks ago. with luck it will prevent me from
going through the same.

 

[Travis Newbury]

like when I
sent men to find the guys who beat up poor Luigi

Luigi! It has been a LONG time since I have seen him around here.

Also, anyone ever hear what happened to brucie? I miss some of the
old regulars.

 

[Phil Payne]

As for browsers... Opera, which is not Open Source, is the only place

we've seen any browser innovation in 5 or 6 years.

Most innovation has been in mobile browsers.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,138313-c,mozilla/article.html

"After a couple of experiences dipping a toe into the mobile market,
Mozilla Corp. said it plans to get serious about developing a mobile
browser.

Mozilla has recently hired two new developers to help work on the
project and plans to release Mobile Firefox some time in the next year
or two."

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:02:05 GMT
Chaddy2222 scribed:

Well, yeah their is not much content but I can read what it says with
my screenreader.

Oh, okay, that was your point...

I think it's suppose to do something, though, because I looked fleetingly
at the source. Whatever.

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:40:48 GMT
dorayme scribed:

OK, you don't want to discuss trolling, and you seem not to be
having any luck with Travis. How about... about... say... er...
discussing what is and what is not a waste of time in life? This
is not an uninteresting subject to pursue considering it touches
on what a being ought and ought not to be, what are the truly
worthwhile things...? Eh?

One big waste of time in life could be reading your posts.

< g r i n >

 

[SpaceGirl]

Most innovation has been in mobile browsers.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,138313-c,mozilla/article.html

"After a couple of experiences dipping a toe into the mobile market,
Mozilla Corp. said it plans to get serious about developing a mobile
browser.

Mozilla has recently hired two new developers to help work on the
project and plans to release Mobile Firefox some time in the next year
or two."

When it's out and on my phone then we can talk about it. Right now,
its hot air. I remember the amazing feature list of FireFox 2...
almost all of the interesting/new features were dropped before it was
launched. Same is happening now with FireFox 3 - most of the more
interesting/new things are slowly dropping off the feature list.

 

[mbstevens]

In the online reader MT-Newswatcher, it is beaut, in two ways:

(1) All the read posts have disappeared and are not even on the
computer

(2) When the reader is opened, only the thread name shows, not
the unread individual posts and one can just read one after the
other without ever having to even see the list of unreads. Each
post has a next button, or the space bar is used to go forward.

I settled on this newsreader in Egypt to cope with things when
flown there by the CIA in one its sweeps of Newtown, Sydney. I
also have extensive techniques for surviving and yes,
flourishing, in killfiles.

I was using Pan for years, but my latest version just died (won't
download any more messages.) Pan does a lot more than thunderbird,
and better, when it runs right -- but keeping it going is a problem.

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:49:12
GMT Ben C scribed:

You have to bear in mind how difficult a job it is, diplomatically as
well as technically. Then you have to ask how could it have been done
better, and if you can't come up with too many ideas, conclude that
they are probably are actually doing a good job.

Well, I don't look at it (nor most things) quite that way. Just because
I may not have plentiful experience within the scope of the subject per
se does not preclude my right or ability to criticize the results. Yes,
I have lots of experience in _using_ the standards but little in
actually formulating them to be viably progressive. My decision
regarding their worth or lack thereof is based upon the ease-of-use with
which they may be instituted and the reliability they demonstrate in
performing. As both of these areas are currently somewhat of a joke
often enough to be notable, I feel quite confident that my opinion is
the correct one.

How does the box model suck anyway? If you didn't have to worry about
history or what existing browsers did, what box model would you
design?

I am not nor profess to be an expert in designing box models, but first
and foremost, said model should be logical _and_ easy to use. I'd
approach the problem by "reverting" to a model wherein the "100%"
designation includes borders/margins/padding and see, by empirical
testing, how that might be accommodated. I would re-base top and bottom
percentage designations applied on margins, etc., to height as opposed
to width. I would strive to make the immediate container the default
container, not the ephemeral "body". Assuming I had the time, I would
look at the whole DOM structure because it is quite flawed. An html
document isn't a "tree" at all, it's a hologram, and all the bs
currently being disseminated about "semantic markup" is bupkis. Sure,
semantics _are_ pertinent to markup, but when improperly foundationed,
they mean next-to-nothing.

In short, I would have to re-evaluated the whole trend of html
"progress" made over the last 10 years or so and undoubtedly start fresh
from primitive beginnings. And as I've already intimated, I'm no expert
so why should my results be any "better" than those of "the pros"? The
trouble here is that "the pros" lack inherent sense, political acuity
and guidance in real-world methods. Perhaps they simply need a wise
leader, but it's rather passe now, anyway, since too much damage has
already been done under the cretinous format extant.

 

[William Gill]

Well, I don't look at it (nor most things) quite that way. Just because
I may not have plentiful experience within the scope of the subject per
se does not preclude my right or ability to criticize the results. Yes,
I have lots of experience in _using_ the standards but little in
actually formulating them to be viably progressive. My decision
regarding their worth or lack thereof is based upon the ease-of-use with
which they may be instituted and the reliability they demonstrate in
performing. As both of these areas are currently somewhat of a joke
often enough to be notable, I feel quite confident that my opinion is
the correct one.

You probably have more experience than you might think. Every day you
deal with things that are a byproduct of my old favorite "Law of
unintended consequences." They occur in contracts, laws, and
"standards." Some principles are the same, the difference between
standards, contracts, and laws are primarily who they govern, their
enforceability, and available mechanisms of enforcement. Break a law,
and you could get incarcerated, break a contract you could get sued,
break a standard you could get,... what not used? That works when you
control the market. Don't make it according to the standard, and no one
will buy it, but can anyone MAKE millions of users stop using any
particular UA? Users don't usually care that the UA doesn't achieve the
desired effect the "right way" they just care that it does what they
want (at least some of the time.) Thus began the Holy Crusade of HTML,
the browser wars. (Ever notice the metaphor between religion and
HTML/CSS in some discussions here?)

It's ALWAYS easier to start with a clean slate, with no legacy
complications, but history is almost always a factor. Similarly,
evolution. We certainly wouldn't want a ease-of-use to preclude
adaptability. The constant "tinkering" is a pendulum pushed back and
forth. Unfortunately some energy may increase the momentum rather than
dissipate it. SGML started out in the academic and scientific user
community, and it was easier to enforce the S of SGML, don't use the
standard and no one will read/share your work. Would you be happy if
SGML/HTML were limited to rules that only suit the exchange of scholarly
work?

You have every right to be personally unhappy with the current state of
things, and you may indeed feel quite confident that your opinion is
the correct one. However, I might add "by some definition of
'correct.'" <g> Thomas Alva Edison once said "I have not failed. I've
just found 10,000 ways that won't work. (another of my favorites)."
Let's just hope it doesn't take them that many tries to get the
standards "right." <g>

The point being, you may well be shooting the messengers for the message
they bear. It is a difficult task, and you should applaud their
willingness to at least make the effort, even if you are not satisfied
with the result. The alternative being "Abandon hope all ye who enter
here." (i.e. We can't fix the standards so get rid of them.)

None of this means you should let those who chose to right/write the
standards just do as the please. That's where your "right or ability to
criticize the results" comes in.

 

[Ben C]

I am not nor profess to be an expert in designing box models, but first
and foremost, said model should be logical _and_ easy to use. I'd
approach the problem by "reverting" to a model wherein the "100%"
designation includes borders/margins/padding and see, by empirical
testing, how that might be accommodated.

For CSS3, the box-sizing: [content-box | border-box] property has been
proposed.

I would re-base top and bottom percentage designations applied on
margins, etc., to height as opposed to width.

There are some unforseen consequences to doing that. The height of an
element often can't be known until its descendents have been formatted.

But its descendents may contain floats (which affect their containers'
heights, by displacing text for example). The positions of the floats
and therefore how the text flows around them is affected by the top
margin of the container in the case where a float spreads from one block
box down into a vertically adjacent one.

So you would have a circularity: top margin height depends on content
height, which depends on floats, which depends on top margin height.

Not insoluble, but since the way text wraps around lines and floats is
not a nice smooth function, the only practical solution would be a lot
of iteration.

 

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

And you never did answer the question.

What question was that? The older posts in the thread are no longer
on my NNTP server.

 

[John Hosking]

What question was that? The older posts in the thread are no longer
on my NNTP server.

Nobody knows. Most reasonable people KFed the participants or the thread
when it passed 200 posts (in two NGs), and the rest of us just watched,
mouths agape, the way people stand like idiots during a multi-car pileup
where bodies and wrecked automobiles lie around in a twisted, gory mess.

The people who were arguing about the question forgot what the question
was dozens of posts ago, too, which I think is the real reason nobody's
answered or restated it. Meanwhile, the would-be participants have also
lost interest. The boiler has cooled; the steam is gone. Nothing left
but a few still-hot words and some half-hearted name-calling.

All I know anymore is that you are a troll for asking, and I am a troll
for responding to you. ;-)

 

[Jerry Stuckle]

What question was that? The older posts in the thread are no longer
on my NNTP server.

Chaddy told Travis that he (Chaddy) had the opinion that
http://www.mortgagenews2.com could be built more quickly in CSS/HTML
with server-side scripting language than in Flash. The site would have
to be accessible to the visually disabled.

Travis's only answer was that since Chaddy didn't know anything about
Flash, Chaddy's opinion was irrelevant.

I challenged Travis on that statement - to indicate how it could be done
more quickly in Flash. Travis has never answered the question, and
continued to insist that Chaddy's statement was irrelevant. Nothing more.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
(e-mail address removed)
==================

 

[Jerry Stuckle]

Nobody knows. Most reasonable people KFed the participants or the thread
when it passed 200 posts (in two NGs), and the rest of us just watched,
mouths agape, the way people stand like idiots during a multi-car pileup
where bodies and wrecked automobiles lie around in a twisted, gory mess.

The people who were arguing about the question forgot what the question
was dozens of posts ago, too, which I think is the real reason nobody's
answered or restated it. Meanwhile, the would-be participants have also
lost interest. The boiler has cooled; the steam is gone. Nothing left
but a few still-hot words and some half-hearted name-calling.

All I know anymore is that you are a troll for asking, and I am a troll
for responding to you. ;-)

Not at all. It's a reasonable question.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
(e-mail address removed)
==================

 

[dorayme]

My bad, it is Archerfield.

Queensland.

By the way, the US 60th Operations Group's 21st Airlift Squadron,
was based there:

http://www.travis.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4280

"The 21st Airlift Squadron was activated at Archer Field,
Brisbane, Australia, April 3, 1942, as the 21st Transportation
Squadron. Throughout World War II the squadron remained in the
New Guinea-Australia theatre airlifting various types of cargo.
In July 1942, the unit was redesignated the 21st Troop Carrier
Squadron and began flying the C-46 Commando and the C-47
Skytrain".

 

[dorayme]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:40:48 GMT
dorayme scribed:


One big waste of time in life could be reading your posts.

< g r i n >

So, you are sort of saying that anyone who reads my posts could
be being sucked into the general hopelessness of my non life?
Well, there would be worse things to be sucked into. Meaning and
importance are not everything, you know. Significance can be very
very bloody painful. Don't be too quick to dismiss a life of
triviality, insignificance, hopelessness and despair...

Actually, I am feeling a bit better today, in fact it happened
yesterday afternoon, I realised I was going to survive this flu.
Sorry!

Do me a favour Boji, when you read my posts, read slowly,
carefully weigh up each word; make up in your slowness and
thoroughness for the rude impatience and dismissal of most...

While in a weakened state, I even had warmer feelings towards
Blinkey. I have now decided it is ok for you to talk to him. So
there, feel free. The more I am pissed off with GG posts, the
warmer and cuddlier Blinkey appears to me... I am shedding any
silly personal feelings and trying to develop a more professional
attitude.

 

[dorayme]

What question was that? The older posts in the thread are no longer
on my NNTP server.

Touche!

 

[dorayme]

Nobody knows. Most reasonable people KFed the participants or the thread
when it passed 200 posts (in two NGs), and the rest of us just watched,
mouths agape, the way people stand like idiots during a multi-car pileup
where bodies and wrecked automobiles lie around in a twisted, gory mess.

The people who were arguing about the question forgot what the question
was dozens of posts ago, too, which I think is the real reason nobody's
answered or restated it. Meanwhile, the would-be participants have also
lost interest. The boiler has cooled; the steam is gone. Nothing left
but a few still-hot words and some half-hearted name-calling.

All I know anymore is that you are a troll for asking, and I am a troll
for responding to you. ;-)

Inside everyone is a repressed urge to troll about, the urge very
strong (because very repressed) in those who have led a life of
great focus in an essentially meaningless world. The
contradiction, the godlessness of it all, can finally break the
containing walls...