Java SE and Java EE

Discussion in 'Java' started by bob smith, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. bob smith

    bob smith Guest

    Why is Java divided into SE and EE?

    Why not have just one Java?
     
    bob smith, Jun 4, 2014
    #1
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  2. bob smith

    markspace Guest

    On 6/3/2014 10:09 PM, bob smith wrote:
    > Why is Java divided into SE and EE?
    >
    > Why not have just one Java?
    >



    Java EE has a bunch of libraries for web development that you really
    wouldn't want in a plain desktop or applet environment.

    I mean, seriously, have you SEEN the Java EE spec? It's pretty insane.

    Also, now adays, there's even more Javas than just Java SE and Java EE.
    Java SE now has three different profiles for embedded devices, because
    somebody still thinks they can beat Android. (Good luck.)

    https://blogs.oracle.com/jtc/entry/a_first_look_at_compact
     
    markspace, Jun 4, 2014
    #2
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  3. bob smith

    Qu0ll Guest

    "markspace" wrote in message news:lmmg2b$g2h$...

    > Also, now adays, there's even more Javas than just Java SE and Java EE.
    > Java SE now has three different profiles for embedded devices, because
    > somebody still thinks they can beat Android. (Good luck.)


    Nothing to do with Android per se: it's all about IoT and Oracle trying to
    position Java ME as the software platform for all connected devices (many of
    which do not run Android).

    --
    And loving it,

    -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
    _________________________________________________

    [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
     
    Qu0ll, Jun 4, 2014
    #3
  4. bob smith

    Joerg Meier Guest

    On Tue, 3 Jun 2014 22:09:02 -0700 (PDT), bob smith wrote:

    > Why is Java divided into SE and EE?


    > Why not have just one Java?


    JavaSE and JavaEE are structurally different - JavaSE allows you to compile
    and then run Java code. JavaEE is a set of APIs, which allow you to compile
    code, but not to run it without including some (often third party) library
    that implements that API.

    One of the reasons for the division is no doubt that when I see a class in
    JavaSE, I know I can use it without having to worry about needing some
    additional library at runtime.

    Liebe Gruesse,
    Joerg

    --
    Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
    ungelesen.
     
    Joerg Meier, Jun 4, 2014
    #4
  5. bob smith

    markspace Guest

    On 6/4/2014 2:09 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
    > "markspace" wrote in message news:lmmg2b$g2h$...
    >
    >> Also, now adays, there's even more Javas than just Java SE and Java
    >> EE. Java SE now has three different profiles for embedded devices,
    >> because somebody still thinks they can beat Android. (Good luck.)

    >
    > Nothing to do with Android per se: it's all about IoT and Oracle trying
    > to position Java ME as the software platform for all connected devices
    > (many of which do not run Android).



    Hmm, true. Although I see all of the "small embedded" markets as
    essentially similar. If Oracle can make in-roads in devices even
    smaller than Android, perhaps Oracle can then leverage their way into
    larger devices. I think that's going to be difficult however.

    I'm honestly at a loss how they expect to make money on compact
    profiles, either now or later. I see compact profiles as gee-whiz
    capability with no business plan. Google takes a cut of app sales on
    Android -- that's a pretty solid business plan. Where's Oracle's
    equivalent on smaller devices?
     
    markspace, Jun 4, 2014
    #5
  6. bob smith

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 6/4/2014 12:40 PM, markspace wrote:
    > On 6/4/2014 2:09 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
    >> "markspace" wrote in message news:lmmg2b$g2h$...
    >>
    >>> Also, now adays, there's even more Javas than just Java SE and Java
    >>> EE. Java SE now has three different profiles for embedded devices,
    >>> because somebody still thinks they can beat Android. (Good luck.)

    >>
    >> Nothing to do with Android per se: it's all about IoT and Oracle trying
    >> to position Java ME as the software platform for all connected devices
    >> (many of which do not run Android).

    >
    >
    > Hmm, true. Although I see all of the "small embedded" markets as
    > essentially similar. If Oracle can make in-roads in devices even
    > smaller than Android, perhaps Oracle can then leverage their way into
    > larger devices. I think that's going to be difficult however.
    >
    > I'm honestly at a loss how they expect to make money on compact
    > profiles, either now or later. I see compact profiles as gee-whiz
    > capability with no business plan. Google takes a cut of app sales on
    > Android -- that's a pretty solid business plan. Where's Oracle's
    > equivalent on smaller devices?


    Traditionally companies has paid a small license fee per device
    for Java ME.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 5, 2014
    #6
  7. bob smith

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 6/4/2014 1:09 AM, bob smith wrote:
    > Why is Java divided into SE and EE?
    >
    > Why not have just one Java?


    It is way more than two.

    Java ME
    CLDC
    MIDP
    IMP
    CDC/embedded
    Java SE embedded
    Java SE
    Java EE
    Web profile
    Full profile

    And they certainly share a lot. But there are some different
    libraries available. Which should not be that surprising
    given that the contexts are so different.

    ..NET is also split up in various flavors:

    ..NET CF
    SilverLight
    ..NET client profile
    ..NET full profile
    ..NET for Windows store
    ..NET for Windows Phone

    depending on the contexts they are used.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 5, 2014
    #7
  8. bob smith

    markspace Guest

    On 6/4/2014 6:29 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    > Traditionally companies has paid a small license fee per device
    > for Java ME.


    I'm not sure I would. C compilers are free. But maybe the small
    embedded market is a different place these days.
     
    markspace, Jun 5, 2014
    #8
  9. On 6/5/2014 1:37 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
    > On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 20:10:04 -0700, markspace wrote:
    >
    >> On 6/4/2014 6:29 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >>> Traditionally companies has paid a small license fee per device for
    >>> Java ME.

    >>
    >> I'm not sure I would. C compilers are free. But maybe the small
    >> embedded market is a different place these days.
    >>

    > For the small devices I've used or looked at closely (Parallax STAMP and
    > PICAXE, both programmed in BASIC) the compilers, debuggers and loaders
    > have been free commercial software. Same goes for the RaspberryPi except
    > that OS, compilers and utilities are free of course - its OS is a Debian
    > Linux fork.


    I believe the tool chain for Java ME is free as well.

    The license is for the runtime environment.

    $0.71 per device for smallest CPU's (many ARM), $2.78 per
    device for bigger CPU's (Atom, ARM Cortex), $36 per
    device (PC CPU).

    At least that is how I read:

    http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/price-lists/java-embedded-price-list-1977272.pdf

    I suggest reading that document carefully and consult a license
    lawyer if you plan on actually using such a license.

    There are free alternatives, but 71 cent per device for Java
    with support from Oracle is probably peanuts combined with
    other cost.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 6, 2014
    #9
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