modern replacement for <Applet> tag

Discussion in 'Java' started by ToeCutter, Aug 17, 2004.

  1. ToeCutter

    ToeCutter Guest

    ToeCutter, Aug 17, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. ToeCutter

    Paul Lutus Guest

    ToeCutter wrote:

    > hi,
    >
    > I've written a little Java applet, but now that <applet> has been
    > deprecated, I'd love to get some help to show me the ideal <object> or
    > whatever the best current tag is.


    Warning. Older browsers are not going to know how to handle anything but the
    "deprecated" apple tag.

    It is all fine and good to deprecate a tag, but as long as legacy browsers
    remain in service, it is academic posturing, and no one should assume they
    can stop using it.

    At the very least, test your pages with all expected browsers.

    > ^^^ those are some experiments, but none cover all browsers (IE,
    > opera, NN).


    Surprise, surprise. The deprecated applet tag works with all of them.

    You know, sometimes Sun relents and "un-deprecates" some things, the
    original deprecation of which turned out to be a bad idea.

    --
    Paul Lutus
    http://www.arachnoid.com
     
    Paul Lutus, Aug 17, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. ToeCutter

    zoopy Guest

    On 17-8-2004 7:13, ToeCutter wrote:
    > hi,
    >
    > I've written a little Java applet, but now that <applet> has been
    > deprecated, I'd love to get some help to show me the ideal <object> or
    > whatever the best current tag is.
    >
    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html
    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot2.html
    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot3.html
    >
    > ^^^ those are some experiments, but none cover all browsers (IE,
    > opera, NN). Thanks in advance for any help


    This is the offical guide:

    <http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/plugin/developer_guide/using_tags.html>

    but unless you're required to create documents following the strict versions of HTML4 or XHTML
    specs, I'd stick to the applet tag. And, as Paul pointed out, almost every browser supports it.

    --
    Regards,
    Z.
     
    zoopy, Aug 17, 2004
    #3
  4. ToeCutter

    Liz Guest

    "ToeCutter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > hi,
    >
    > I've written a little Java applet, but now that <applet> has been
    > deprecated, I'd love to get some help to show me the ideal <object> or
    > whatever the best current tag is.
    >
    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html
    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot2.html
    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot3.html
    >
    > ^^^ those are some experiments, but none cover all browsers (IE,
    > opera, NN). Thanks in advance for any help


    Who seyz it is depreciated?
     
    Liz, Aug 18, 2004
    #4
  5. ToeCutter

    Paul Lutus Guest

    Liz wrote:

    >
    > "ToeCutter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> hi,
    >>
    >> I've written a little Java applet, but now that <applet> has been
    >> deprecated, I'd love to get some help to show me the ideal <object> or
    >> whatever the best current tag is.
    >>
    >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html
    >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot2.html
    >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot3.html
    >>
    >> ^^^ those are some experiments, but none cover all browsers (IE,
    >> opera, NN). Thanks in advance for any help

    >
    > Who seyz it is depreciated?


    It isn't, it is deprecated:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/objects.html

    Depreciated: reduced in value.

    Deprecated: disapproved, deplored.

    --
    Paul Lutus
    http://www.arachnoid.com
     
    Paul Lutus, Aug 18, 2004
    #5
  6. ToeCutter

    Cid Guest

    >
    >"ToeCutter" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> hi,
    >>
    >> I've written a little Java applet, but now that <applet> has been
    >> deprecated, I'd love to get some help to show me the ideal <object> or
    >> whatever the best current tag is.
    >>
    >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html
    >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot2.html
    >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot3.html
    >>
    >> ^^^ those are some experiments, but none cover all browsers (IE,
    >> opera, NN). Thanks in advance for any help


    Check out htmlconverter in your jdk bin folder. Converts <applet>
    usage to equivilent <object> usage.
     
    Cid, Aug 18, 2004
    #6
  7. ToeCutter

    Liz Guest

    "Paul Lutus" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Liz wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > "ToeCutter" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> hi,
    > >>
    > >> I've written a little Java applet, but now that <applet> has been
    > >> deprecated, I'd love to get some help to show me the ideal <object> or
    > >> whatever the best current tag is.
    > >>
    > >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html
    > >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot2.html
    > >> http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot3.html
    > >>
    > >> ^^^ those are some experiments, but none cover all browsers (IE,
    > >> opera, NN). Thanks in advance for any help

    > >
    > > Who seyz it is depreciated?

    >
    > It isn't, it is deprecated:
    >
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/objects.html
    >
    > Depreciated: reduced in value.
    >
    > Deprecated: disapproved, deplored.
    >
    > --
    > Paul Lutus
    > http://www.arachnoid.com
    >

    Reading that link, it seems that those folks first
    depreciated it then deprecated it. (-_-)
     
    Liz, Aug 18, 2004
    #7
  8. ToeCutter

    Paul Lutus Guest

    Liz wrote:

    > Reading that link, it seems that those folks first
    > depreciated it then deprecated it. (-_-)


    I concur. They did both. :)

    But I think they are going to eat their deprecation.

    --
    Paul Lutus
    http://www.arachnoid.com
     
    Paul Lutus, Aug 18, 2004
    #8
  9. On 16 Aug 2004 22:13:38 -0700, ToeCutter wrote:

    > I've written a little Java applet,


    Nice. Note that if you attach a Listener
    to the the RadioButton group, you could
    trigger a recalculation without requiring
    the user to click 'Ok'.

    Why are you using Swing buttons?

    >..but now that <applet> has been
    > deprecated, I'd love to get some help to show me the ideal <object> or
    > whatever the best current tag is.


    No such beast has been found, you can butcher a
    perfectly valid (3.2 or 4.01 transitional) HTML
    applet tag with HTMLConverter, but it produces
    invalid, JS (browser-sniffing) HTML that will
    be unreadable and unmaintainable.

    If you *want* to do that, you need to start with
    a robust applet tag in HTML..

    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot.html
    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot2.html


    ...which both those applet tags are not. Each
    lacks an 'alt' and 'alternate HTML'. Given
    the applet uses Swing, a better alternative
    for versioning might be the JavaVersionApplet.
    <http://www.physci.org/codes/jre.jsp>

    (and continue to use the applet
    tag and 4.01 transitional HTML)

    > http://www.reefnerds.com/ChemPlot/ChemPlot3.html


    This one does not work at all, in IE 6 or Mox 1.3.

    I notice it specifies a codebase, but not the code
    archive. Is that your intent?

    > ^^^ those are some experiments, but none cover all browsers (IE,
    > opera, NN).


    Nothing does, or will, cover all browsers,
    you would have a hard time adequately supporting
    Java in Lynx, the best you can hope for is
    to give the user meaningful information on
    why they do not get the applet, and possible
    alternatives.

    > Thanks in advance for any help


    You're welcome.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Aug 18, 2004
    #9
  10. On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:19:18 -0400, Cid wrote:

    > Check out htmlconverter in your jdk bin folder. Converts <applet>
    > usage to equivilent <object> usage.


    It produces invalid, unmaintainable HTML
    though.. There are good reasons to stick with
    HTML 4.01 Transitional and use applet tags.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Aug 18, 2004
    #10
  11. Andrew Thompson <> writes:

    > It produces invalid, unmaintainable HTML
    > though..


    Not if you thumb your nose at Netscape 4 users and pick the option
    that generates OBJECT element only (the MSIE option if memory serves).
     
    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Aug 18, 2004
    #11
  12. ToeCutter

    Cid Guest

    On 18 Aug 2004 10:31:02 +0200, Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
    <> wrote:

    >Andrew Thompson <> writes:
    >
    >> It produces invalid, unmaintainable HTML
    >> though..

    >
    >Not if you thumb your nose at Netscape 4 users and pick the option
    >that generates OBJECT element only (the MSIE option if memory serves).


    Man I hate the browser wars. I wish developers would just refuse to
    use any product that diverges from the standard and thereby force
    compliance.
     
    Cid, Aug 18, 2004
    #12
  13. Cid wrote:
    >>Not if you thumb your nose at Netscape 4 users and pick the option
    >>that generates OBJECT element only (the MSIE option if memory serves).

    >
    >
    > Man I hate the browser wars. I wish developers would just refuse to
    > use any product that diverges from the standard and thereby force
    > compliance.


    The problem is that

    A) it takes time for new features to get standardized. People want to use
    them *now*, not in two years.

    B) It's not only about developers. It would be nice if browsers refused
    to render incorrect HTML instead if trying to cope in incompatibility-creating
    ways, but to the user, it's the browser that's broken, not the page.
     
    Michael Borgwardt, Aug 18, 2004
    #13
  14. Cid <> writes:

    > Man I hate the browser wars. I wish developers would just refuse to
    > use any product that diverges from the standard and thereby force
    > compliance.


    EXACTLY! That means no stinking EMBED - which violates HTML in so many
    ways it should be illegal - but OBJECT, which Netscape chose to ignore
    in their "not invented here" frame of mind. If I am not mistaken, it's
    supported in the new Netscape (Mozilla-based).
     
    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Aug 18, 2004
    #14
  15. On 18 Aug 2004 10:31:02 +0200, Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
    > Andrew Thompson <> writes:


    (HTMLConverter)
    >> It produces invalid, unmaintainable HTML
    >> though..


    ( When using nested <OBJECT>/<EMBED> elements)

    > Not if you thumb your nose at Netscape 4..


    Are you sure they are the only ones?

    > ..users and pick the option
    > that generates OBJECT element only (the MSIE option if memory serves).


    I am beginning to suspect that even the browsers
    that do not understand <OBJECT> can be adequately
    covered by using a nested <OBJECT>/*<APPLET>* tag..

    <http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/>

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Aug 19, 2004
    #15
  16. On 16 Aug 2004 22:13:38 -0700, ToeCutter wrote:

    > I've written a little Java applet, but now that <applet> has been
    > deprecated, I'd love to get some help to show me the ideal <object> or
    > whatever the best current tag is.


    How 'modern' do you want?

    The best, most robust and valid experiments that
    I have produced for combining <OBJECT><APPLET>
    elements in HTML can be seen here..
    <http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index5.html>
    ...and, here.
    <http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index6.html>

    Take your pick, but be warned that the second* has yet
    to be torn apart and robustly reconstructed by the JS
    gurus.. [ It only consists of 6 lines of JS, so I'm
    hoping to have made fewer than 11 mistakes.. ;-) ]

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Aug 23, 2004
    #16
  17. ToeCutter

    Mickey Segal Guest

    "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote in message
    news:ixkrivyrflvn.1hqotl4jf6whh$...
    > The best, most robust and valid experiments that
    > I have produced for combining <OBJECT><APPLET>
    > elements in HTML can be seen here..
    > <http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index5.html>
    > ..and, here.
    > <http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index6.html>
    >
    > Take your pick, but be warned that the second* has yet
    > to be torn apart and robustly reconstructed by the JS
    > gurus.. [ It only consists of 6 lines of JS, so I'm
    > hoping to have made fewer than 11 mistakes.. ;-) ]


    Using Internet Explorer 6 SP1 on Windows XP SP1 the index6 example always
    places a small grey rectangle over part of the browser's menu. The browser
    has the Microsoft JVM as the default and Sun 1.5 beta 2 available. No
    problem with the index5 example.

    Is there a purpose to preferring the OBJECT tag other than wanting to invoke
    the Sun JVM preferentially? We froze our huge applet at Java 1.1 because of
    users needing that environment and see much better flicker-free changing of
    GUI components with the Microsoft JVM (suggestions are always welcome).
     
    Mickey Segal, Aug 23, 2004
    #17
  18. On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:22:03 -0400, Mickey Segal wrote:

    > Using Internet Explorer 6 SP1 on Windows XP SP1 the index6 example always
    > places a small grey rectangle over part of the browser's menu.


    ...hmmm. Odd. I tested in 6.00.26 on XP,
    (I am not sure what the SP1's are.. but I
    got several years worth of critical security
    updates the other night, 'SP1' sounds familiar..)

    >..The browser
    > has the Microsoft JVM as the default and Sun 1.5 beta 2 available. No
    > problem with the index5 example.


    Same set-up here. ..Wait a second.
    I have the 1.5 beta set as default.

    OK,.. my test with the MSVM selected as default
    fails as well, in a different way. The page fails
    to load completely and shows the OBJECT element(?!?)

    But then.. who besides developers are likely to have
    the Sun Java installed, but the MSVM selected as default?

    Does it work when you have either
    a) both selected, or..
    b) only the Sun VM selected

    [ Here, the answer is yes to both. ]

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Aug 23, 2004
    #18
  19. ToeCutter

    Mickey Segal Guest

    "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote in message
    news:1rkg5vonp2q0c$...
    > ..hmmm. Odd. I tested in 6.00.26 on XP,
    > (I am not sure what the SP1's are.. but I
    > got several years worth of critical security
    > updates the other night, 'SP1' sounds familiar..)


    My version is:
    Version 6.0.2800.1106

    > OK,.. my test with the MSVM selected as default
    > fails as well, in a different way. The page fails
    > to load completely and shows the OBJECT element(?!?)


    I see the word OBJECT for both your index5 and index6 examples.

    > Does it work when you have either
    > a) both selected, or..
    > b) only the Sun VM selected


    All is fine with Sun VM selected. (I don't know how to select both JVMs.)

    The gray rectangle that appears when using the MS JVM is in a constant place
    near the top left of the screen, overlapping whatever is there.
     
    Mickey Segal, Aug 23, 2004
    #19
  20. On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:29:29 -0400, in comp.lang.java.programmer you wrote:
    > "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote in message

    ...
    > The gray rectangle that appears when using the MS JVM is in a constant place
    > near the top left of the screen, overlapping whatever is there.


    I am pursuing a more robust approach (hopefully),
    where I test for the TOP_ALIGNMENT attribute of
    the applet from Javascript. I'll see if I can
    come up with something more reliable for you to
    have a look at.

    [ Otherwise I'll toss this as a failed experiment
    and stick with the applet element completely. ]

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
     
    Andrew Thompson, Aug 23, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. shruds
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    842
    John C. Bollinger
    Jan 27, 2006
  2. Ben Amada

    Replacement for FONT tag

    Ben Amada, Oct 2, 2005, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    8,723
    Ben Amada
    Oct 3, 2005
  3. Manuel Ospina

    tag replacement in toxml()

    Manuel Ospina, Apr 1, 2007, in forum: Python
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    363
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=
    Apr 1, 2007
  4. Sanny
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    414
    Arne Vajhøj
    Aug 20, 2012
  5. Arne Vajhøj
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    466
    Arne Vajhøj
    Aug 20, 2012
Loading...

Share This Page