New Website - critique/feedback requested

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Richard Thoms, May 11, 2006.

  1. Hello web-gurus,

    Please checkout our new website and give us some feedback.

    http://www.TopServicePros.com

    The premise is a website to connect homeowners to local service
    professionals. Service pros can subscribe to build a personalized
    custom web listing.

    The /cart/ area is not fully functional yet but everything else should
    be navigable. Known broken links for "servicepro: how it works" and
    "media center"

    Since there are no real service pros listed yet, the search won't find
    much but if you Search for "Housekeeping/Maid" with zipcode 35801 you'll
    see some dummy hits. Also you can go directly to a sample listing at
    http://www.TopServicePros.com/1

    I'm interested to hear your comments especially about navigation
    (easy/confusing) and content (too much/too little).

    Thanks in advance.

    -Richard

    P.S. http://www.TopServicePros.com will take you to an "under
    development" landing page. Just click the "enter and look around" link
    (or http://www.TopServicePros.com/index.php) to get inside.

    --
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Richard Thoms
    President - Top Service Pros, Inc.
    Connecting Homeowners and Local Home Service Professionals
    Homeowners, Find a Top Service Pro --> http://www.TopServicePros.com
    Service Pros, Get Listed on the Web -> http://www.TopServicePros.com
     
    Richard Thoms, May 11, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Richard Thoms

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, Richard Thoms
    <> vouchsafed:

    > Hello web-gurus,
    >
    > Please checkout our new website and give us some feedback.
    >
    > http://www.TopServicePros.com


    I like the background but the guy with the big, yellow tongue doesn't look
    very professional.

    Why do I get a horizontal scrollbar around 1024px when the content
    displayed is only about 800px?

    If the box _is_ 800 px wide, it should be a bit smaller for 800px screens
    or, better yet, the design should be fluid.

    You're using a fixed font.

    Increasing the font-size in Firefox upsets the layout dramatically.

    Summation: Attractive looking but inferior in actual design.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 11, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Richard Thoms

    Jim Moe Guest

    Richard Thoms wrote:
    >
    > Please checkout our new website and give us some feedback.
    > http://www.TopServicePros.com
    >
    > The premise is a website to connect homeowners to local service
    > professionals. Service pros can subscribe to build a personalized
    > custom web listing.
    >

    Excellent concept.
    Since this is a newsgroup about critiquing HTML, I'll stick to that.

    - Passes both HTML and CSS validation. Yay!

    - Uses a Transitional DTD. Should be Strict.
    - Ancient tables-abused-for-layout style.
    - Unreadable small font size: 12px, 75% of my preferred size.
    - Unreadable small font size is in px units. Not resizeable by IE.

    - The menu item borders do not line up with the curved images.
    - Menu dropdowns do not work when Javascript is disabled. The main items
    look like links but are not.

    The layout is rather brittle. Zoom the font size and see what happens
    (you'll have to use Firefox).

    See
    <http://www.pretletters.net/_test/common_mistakes_with_html4-01-strict_pages.html>.


    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
     
    Jim Moe, May 11, 2006
    #3
  4. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Richard Thoms
    <> writing in
    news:99A8g.38452$:

    > Hello web-gurus,
    >
    > Please checkout our new website and give us some feedback.
    >
    > http://www.TopServicePros.com
    >
    > The premise is a website to connect homeowners to local service
    > professionals. Service pros can subscribe to build a personalized
    > custom web listing.


    Great idea. I like the picture of the person having a break with his
    sandwich and thermos. He looks so typical, I'll bet if he turned
    around, his butt crack would show.

    >
    > The /cart/ area is not fully functional yet but everything else should
    > be navigable. Known broken links for "servicepro: how it works" and
    > "media center"
    >
    > Since there are no real service pros listed yet, the search won't find
    > much but if you Search for "Housekeeping/Maid" with zipcode 35801
    > you'll see some dummy hits. Also you can go directly to a sample
    > listing at http://www.TopServicePros.com/1
    >
    > I'm interested to hear your comments especially about navigation
    > (easy/confusing) and content (too much/too little).


    Never use javascript for anything that is really important, like
    navigation. With javascript disabled, the top menu does not work at all
    <a class="item1" href="javascript:void(0)">About Us</a>. You can still
    have a horizontal dropdown menu without javascript using CSS. Google
    for suckerfish css. Users without CSS will see a regular list, users
    with CSS will see the dropdown menu - and all users will have access to
    the information.

    You are also using some deprecated elements, I assume hence the
    Transitional DTD. Get rid of them, use CSS instead and upgrade to
    Strict.

    You're using pixels for font sizing. Not good. Pixels cannot be
    resized in certain browsers (IE for example), and the little old lady
    who needs a plumber might not be able to see, and the guy who has bad
    eyesight who wants to list his services might not be able to see "List
    my Company!"



    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, May 11, 2006
    #4
  5. Richard Thoms

    Crazy Guy Guest

    Crazy Guy, May 11, 2006
    #5
  6. On Thu, 11 May 2006 09:03:41 +0200, Crazy Guy <>
    wrote:

    > Looks good to me Richard
    >
    > www.ART-i-SAN.net


    Having close to two hundred errors in your markup of this thing you think
    is a page worth publishing, I don't think you have a clue as to what
    you're talking about. Your comment is worthless and looks much like a
    childish attempt to get your URL posted.

    <URL:http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.art-i-san.net%2F&charset=iso-8859-1&doctype=HTML+4.01+Strict>

    Learn about posting properly:
    <URL:http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
    <URL:http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>
    <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block>

    And in the future, before commenting on other peoples websites, you better
    learn a thing or two about markup and styles. As it is now, it is of no
    use at all to anyone.


    --
    ______PretLetters:
    | weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://www.pretletters.net/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://www.pretletters.net/html/vliegen.html |
     
    Barbara de Zoete, May 11, 2006
    #6
  7. Charles Sweeney, May 11, 2006
    #7
  8. Barbara de Zoete wrote

    > On Thu, 11 May 2006 09:03:41 +0200, Crazy Guy
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Looks good to me Richard
    >>
    >> www.ART-i-SAN.net

    >
    > Having close to two hundred errors in your markup of this thing you
    > think is a page worth publishing, I don't think you have a clue as to
    > what you're talking about. Your comment is worthless and looks much
    > like a childish attempt to get your URL posted.
    >
    > <URL:http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.art-i-san.net%

    2
    > F&charset=iso-8859-1&doctype=HTML+4.01+Strict>
    >
    > Learn about posting properly:
    > <URL:http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
    > <URL:http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>
    > <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block>
    >
    > And in the future, before commenting on other peoples websites, you
    > better learn a thing or two about markup and styles. As it is now, it
    > is of no use at all to anyone.


    I'm glad blokes don't get the menopause.

    --
    Charles Sweeney
    http://CharlesSweeney.com
     
    Charles Sweeney, May 11, 2006
    #8
  9. Charles Sweeney wrote:
    >
    >
    > I'm glad blokes don't get the menopause.
    >


    Charles, I don't know which is worse. Going through menopause, or living with
    someone who's going through it. :)

    --
    ==================
    Remove the "x" from my email address
    Jerry Stuckle
    JDS Computer Training Corp.

    ==================
     
    Jerry Stuckle, May 11, 2006
    #9
  10. "Richard Thoms" <> wrote in message
    news:99A8g.38452$...
    > Hello web-gurus,
    >
    > Please checkout our new website and give us some feedback.


    The "Join Now" page:
    The main content is higher than your other pages and partially overlays the
    top banner, about half the height of your horizontal menu.

    Using Firefox 1.5.

    M
     
    Michael Laplante, May 11, 2006
    #10
  11. Jim Moe <> wrote:

    > Richard Thoms wrote:
    > >
    > > Please checkout our new website and give us some feedback.
    > > http://www.TopServicePros.com

    >
    > The layout is rather brittle. Zoom the font size and see what happens
    > (you'll have to use Firefox).


    Why would one "have to use Firefox"?

    Do other browsers allow font sizes to be changed (as opposed to zoomed,
    which is something different altogether)? Does the page not fall apart
    in those browsers when the font size is increased past some point?

    What exactly makes Firefox so special in this regard that one simply has
    to use it?

    --
    Joel.
     
    Joel Shepherd, May 11, 2006
    #11
  12. Richard Thoms

    JDS Guest

    On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:37:24 +0000, Joel Shepherd wrote:

    > Why would one "have to use Firefox"?
    >
    > Do other browsers allow font sizes to be changed (as opposed to zoomed,
    > which is something different altogether)? Does the page not fall apart
    > in those browsers when the font size is increased past some point?


    Because, (1) using px for text size, IE won't resize the text and (2)
    Opera zooms the whole page and not just the text size.

    In actuality, though, you could say, "use a gecko-based browser such as
    Firefox or Mozilla or Netscape 6,7,8 or a KHTML browser (such as
    Konqueror, Safari) or any browser that resizes the text and does not zoom
    the whole page)

    Is that accurate enough for you?

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
     
    JDS, May 11, 2006
    #12
  13. Jerry Stuckle wrote

    > Charles Sweeney wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> I'm glad blokes don't get the menopause.
    >>

    >
    > Charles, I don't know which is worse. Going through menopause, or
    > living with someone who's going through it. :)


    :eek:)

    --
    Charles Sweeney
    http://CharlesSweeney.com
     
    Charles Sweeney, May 11, 2006
    #13
  14. Richard Thoms

    dorayme Guest

    In article <Xns97C0652FB227mecharlessweeneycom@130.133.1.4>,
    Charles Sweeney <> wrote:

    > I'm glad blokes don't get the menopause.


    Glad for yourself or your boyfriend?

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 12, 2006
    #14
  15. Neredbojias wrote:
    > To further the education of mankind, Richard Thoms
    > <> vouchsafed:
    >
    >
    >>Hello web-gurus,
    >>
    >>Please checkout our new website and give us some feedback.
    >>
    >>http://www.TopServicePros.com

    >
    >
    > I like the background but the guy with the big, yellow tongue doesn't look
    > very professional.


    Hey that's me! - no not really ;) I guess big yellow tongue means the
    tape measure? I checked all the pics and didn't see one where he's
    sticking his tounge out. Anyway I've got alot more stock photos of
    other "service pros" that I hope to be able to make show in "context" so
    that you see a maid while searching for a housekeeper, a painter while
    searching for a painter ...


    > Why do I get a horizontal scrollbar around 1024px when the content
    > displayed is only about 800px?


    Good eyes! I never noticed that I'll have to check it out.

    > If the box _is_ 800 px wide, it should be a bit smaller for 800px screens
    > or, better yet, the design should be fluid.


    I'm actually running around 770px. I don't like fluid size because I'm
    a control freak and I don't think I can make a decent layout that looks
    good in both 800px and 1200px.

    > You're using a fixed font.


    Others have mentioned that too. I did not realize it's a problem. I'll
    research but what is the preferred way? % I guess?

    > Increasing the font-size in Firefox upsets the layout dramatically.


    Another good catch! I'll have to figure that one out too.

    > Summation: Attractive looking but inferior in actual design.
    >


    Thanks for the feedback.

    --
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Richard Thoms
    President - Top Service Pros, Inc.
    Connecting Homeowners and Local Home Service Professionals
    Homeowners, Find a Top Service Pro --> http://www.TopServicePros.com
    Service Pros, Get Listed on the Web -> http://www.TopServicePros.com
     
    Richard Thoms, May 12, 2006
    #15
  16. Jim Moe wrote:
    > Excellent concept.
    > Since this is a newsgroup about critiquing HTML, I'll stick to that.


    Thanks for the compliment.

    > - Passes both HTML and CSS validation. Yay!


    I tried!

    > - Uses a Transitional DTD. Should be Strict.


    I had strict on for a while and could not make it pass. It's definitely
    something I want to work toward though.

    > - Ancient tables-abused-for-layout style.


    That's me all the way! This is my first major web project and I just
    couldn't get a handle or control of <div> and float. It is something I
    want to learn more about and convert that way. Tables were much easier
    for me to understand. But I'm learning!

    > - Unreadable small font size: 12px, 75% of my preferred size.
    > - Unreadable small font size is in px units. Not resizeable by IE.


    Others have commented the same. I'll fix both. Don't know if I can get
    to 16px. You know I based some of this by looking at the ever popular
    websites (yahoo, amazon, etc) and they run super small fonts. But I
    agree that ABAP (as big as possible) should be the rule.

    > - The menu item borders do not line up with the curved images.


    This is something I could never get to reconcile between IE and Firefox.
    Firefox shows it right but IE has this problem. I could tweak it and
    get the reverse behavior, but because I develop in FF so I left it this
    way so that I would not have to look at the problem (I know, most of the
    world uses IE -- for now!)

    > - Menu dropdowns do not work when Javascript is disabled. The main items
    > look like links but are not.


    Others have mentioned this. I'm going to try to get rid of the JS and
    hopefully can fix the menu item border issue at the same time.

    > The layout is rather brittle. Zoom the font size and see what happens
    > (you'll have to use Firefox).


    Yep. Someone else mentioned that too. I never tried but I'll see if I
    can fix it.

    > See
    > <http://www.pretletters.net/_test/common_mistakes_with_html4-01-strict_pages.html>.


    Nice checklist. Glad to see I'm most of the way there.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    --
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Richard Thoms
    President - Top Service Pros, Inc.
    Connecting Homeowners and Local Home Service Professionals
    Homeowners, Find a Top Service Pro --> http://www.TopServicePros.com
    Service Pros, Get Listed on the Web -> http://www.TopServicePros.com
     
    Richard Thoms, May 12, 2006
    #16
  17. Adrienne Boswell wrote:
    > Great idea. I like the picture of the person having a break with his
    > sandwich and thermos. He looks so typical, I'll bet if he turned
    > around, his butt crack would show.


    Don't go there! ;)

    > Never use javascript for anything that is really important, like
    > navigation. With javascript disabled, the top menu does not work at all
    > <a class="item1" href="javascript:void(0)">About Us</a>. You can still
    > have a horizontal dropdown menu without javascript using CSS. Google
    > for suckerfish css. Users without CSS will see a regular list, users
    > with CSS will see the dropdown menu - and all users will have access to
    > the information.


    Others mentioned this as well. And I've never been happy with the
    javascript menu system (it's ~25k and half the size of the total page!).
    Thanks for the suckerfish css tip. I had never heard of it but it looks
    like a good way to go, I'm going to give it a try.

    > You are also using some deprecated elements, I assume hence the
    > Transitional DTD. Get rid of them, use CSS instead and upgrade to
    > Strict.


    I'll try...

    > You're using pixels for font sizing. Not good. Pixels cannot be
    > resized in certain browsers (IE for example), and the little old lady
    > who needs a plumber might not be able to see, and the guy who has bad
    > eyesight who wants to list his services might not be able to see "List
    > my Company!"


    Others mentioned as well. Seems like a top request and one of the first
    fixes I'll try to make.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    --
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Richard Thoms
    President - Top Service Pros, Inc.
    Connecting Homeowners and Local Home Service Professionals
    Homeowners, Find a Top Service Pro --> http://www.TopServicePros.com
    Service Pros, Get Listed on the Web -> http://www.TopServicePros.com
     
    Richard Thoms, May 12, 2006
    #17
  18. Michael Laplante wrote:
    > The "Join Now" page:
    > The main content is higher than your other pages and partially overlays the
    > top banner, about half the height of your horizontal menu.


    Are you talking about the green bar?

    When I view the top banner (which in reality is from the top of the page
    to the bottom of the tabs for the menu) is always the exact same height.
    What is different on the "join now" page (and all /cart/ pages) is that
    there is a green bar that was intended to give the user an indication
    that they are in the shopping/login area.

    Is it confusing? Maybe it would look better if it were dark blue?

    Thanks for the feedback.

    --
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Richard Thoms
    President - Top Service Pros, Inc.
    Connecting Homeowners and Local Home Service Professionals
    Homeowners, Find a Top Service Pro --> http://www.TopServicePros.com
    Service Pros, Get Listed on the Web -> http://www.TopServicePros.com
     
    Richard Thoms, May 12, 2006
    #18
  19. Richard Thoms wrote:
    > Hello web-gurus,
    >
    > Please checkout our new website and give us some feedback.
    >
    > http://www.TopServicePros.com


    Thanks to everyone that provided feedback. I've got a little work to do
    now. Soon I'll post another request and I'll let you all into the
    "back-end" to navigate and try the areas that the service pro will be
    using to build their personalized custom content webpage. There's alot
    more going on in there with forms and interactions with the database.

    If anybody has other feedback, please keep responding to this post.

    Thanks,
    Richard

    --
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Richard Thoms
    President - Top Service Pros, Inc.
    Connecting Homeowners and Local Home Service Professionals
    Homeowners, Find a Top Service Pro --> http://www.TopServicePros.com
    Service Pros, Get Listed on the Web -> http://www.TopServicePros.com
     
    Richard Thoms, May 12, 2006
    #19
  20. "Richard Thoms" <> wrote in message
    news:j8T8g.40454$...
    > Michael Laplante wrote:
    >> The "Join Now" page:
    >> The main content is higher than your other pages and partially overlays
    >> the top banner, about half the height of your horizontal menu.

    >
    > Are you talking about the green bar?


    Yeah, the green bar is flush with the bottom of the blue line at the bottom
    of your top banner. The "About Us" "For Service Pros" sit right on top of
    the green bar. These appear as tabs in other pages but here the bottom third
    of the tab is hidden by the green bar -- like they are peeking out from
    BEHIND it now.

    It's not a show stopper, but it's noticeably different from the other pages
    where the borders of the tabs are completely visible.

    This table:
    <table class="centershop" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">M
     
    Michael Laplante, May 12, 2006
    #20
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