New Window = No No ???

[Uncle Pirate]

Use Opera.

Yech. I've never liked the interface at all.

I'm liking Maxthon except for all the included IE bugs/behaviour. And
new windows open in a new tab in Maxthon.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

 

[Dan]

They do not typically know. That is the one valid argument for opening new
windows.

I would think it would be an argument against it, because if the user
doesn't know which links are to other sites and which links are within
the site, and might not even care (all they're interested in is whether
it has information they want to read, not whose site it's on), then
they don't "expect" the link to open a new window (which was one of the
arguments raised in favor of doing it), even if they have an idea that
external links "usually" open new windows. (Do they, really? I don't
think Google does.)

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

I'm liking Maxthon except for all the included IE bugs/behaviour.
And new windows open in a new tab in Maxthon.

It't the IE shell MyIE2 renamed, for anyone who didn't know. Still
just IE with a pretty face, and as you say, same bugs and security
holes. <g>
http://www.myie2.com/html_en/home.htm

 

[Andy Dingley]

Begins with 'R'...

I've just spent an awfully long time wondering how you could be
spelling Nielsen with an "R"

 

[Uncle Pirate]

It't the IE shell MyIE2 renamed, for anyone who didn't know. Still just
IE with a pretty face, and as you say, same bugs and security holes. <g>
http://www.myie2.com/html_en/home.htm

Yes. MyIE2 changed names to Maxthon with an updated release. But it
isn't just IE, it has a lot of nice features added in (including bugs
). I suppose it could be pretty much based on IE but as far as I
know, is developed separately by other than M$.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

 

[Toby Inkster]

Yes. MyIE2 changed names to Maxthon with an updated release. But it
isn't just IE, it has a lot of nice features added in (including bugs
). I suppose it could be pretty much based on IE but as far as I
know, is developed separately by other than M$.

But it uses IE's rendering engine and so forth, just putting a "nice" GUI
around the edges. This means it still suffers from all of IE's CSS
problems, security holes, etc.

 

[Uncle Pirate]

Uncle Pirate wrote:




But it uses IE's rendering engine and so forth, just putting a "nice" GUI
around the edges. This means it still suffers from all of IE's CSS
problems, security holes, etc.

I know it has all the same problems. I only use it for sites that I
want/need access to that require cookies, java, javascript, etc. which I
do not normally "browse" with. I know enough about the sites to trust
them somewhat so chance the insecurity of the browser in general.

I have people ask me all the time why I won't turn any of those things
on. I usually respond "When was the last time you had to clean up your
machine from spyware, worms and viruses? It's been a long time since
one of my Windows system has had any of those things." Then, I might
tell them that I've never had any of those on one of my Linux systems.

Another thing I do with Maxthon since it does have the same IE problems
is use it for some of my site testing. Then I can also use IE to
compare and see that something definitely is an IE problem. So in that
sense, I'm glad it has the bugs.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

 

[Lauri Raittila]

We've chosen the practice of creating "speedbump" pages, to which we send
all external links. It tells the user that they're leaving and that the
organization is not responsible for the content on the new site. They're
given a "Continue" button which sends the user to the new site and a
"Cancel" button which takes them to the referring page.

I can't figure out why you think this is good idea. With how many people
you have tested this? Were there anyone out there that did know whaty
browser is?

I have seen this in use, and I have hated it. More than new windows. More
than flash. Almost as much as framed sites with js to send you intro page
when you try directly access page.

 

[Karl Core]

I can't figure out why you think this is good idea. With how many people
you have tested this? Were there anyone out there that did know whaty
browser is?

We have not tested this solution. However, it is meant to confirm to the
visitor that they're leaving because, as I've said, participants aren't apt
to understand that they've left one site and gone to another. That is
unless, of course, the two sites look night & day different and even then
there's no guarantee that they'll know they've gone somewhere else.
So to this end, at least we're doing two things - 1) Avoiding the problems
of a new window and 2) Confirming that they've left the site.

 

[Lauri Raittila]

We have not tested this solution. However, it is meant to confirm to the
visitor that they're leaving because, as I've said, participants aren't apt
to understand that they've left one site and gone to another.

I think you should at least have some option to turn this thing of, if
your site is intented to be used more than once in lifetime. I certainly
would not use site like that unless it was absolutely only option. But if
there is option, then it is not that bad, and people that would get very
annoyed are usually clueful enaugh to look for such setting. Especially
if iste in question have more than few links to outside

I also think this should be tested before adopting. I feel that this
might be like "open new window so that people won't get lost" argument.
Sounds reasonable, but might not be after all.

So to this end, at least we're doing two things - 1) Avoiding the problems
of a new window

But creating barrier between information and user.

and 2) Confirming that they've left the site.

That's better than using new window for that (as opening new windows
doesn't do that), but sounds like killing fly with flame thrower. Fly
will die, but there might be some damage for other things too.

It is said that back button is the 2nd most used thing in web browser (or
something like that). I believe links are the most important thing. You
seem to be reaking them. I hope that your implemention at least do not
make URL of real target unaccessible.

 

[Karl Core]

I think you should at least have some option to turn this thing of, if
your site is intented to be used more than once in lifetime. I certainly
would not use site like that unless it was absolutely only option. But if
there is option, then it is not that bad, and people that would get very
annoyed are usually clueful enaugh to look for such setting. Especially
if iste in question have more than few links to outside

I also think this should be tested before adopting. I feel that this
might be like "open new window so that people won't get lost" argument.
Sounds reasonable, but might not be after all.


But creating barrier between information and user.


That's better than using new window for that (as opening new windows
doesn't do that), but sounds like killing fly with flame thrower. Fly
will die, but there might be some damage for other things too.

It is said that back button is the 2nd most used thing in web browser (or
something like that). I believe links are the most important thing. You
seem to be reaking them. I hope that your implemention at least do not
make URL of real target unaccessible.

I won't go on record as saying that this implementation is a "good" one
unless & until it is tested. However, I do see it as the lesser of two evils
(this vs. the new window).
One thing I didn't mention was that the site owner was the one who wanted to
"make sure people know they've gone elsewhere". This was in reaction to
industry regulations.

My solution, as evidenced by my personal sites, is to just let them go
whereever they want.

 

[Uncle Pirate]

I won't go on record as saying that this implementation is a "good" one
unless & until it is tested. However, I do see it as the lesser of two evils
(this vs. the new window).
One thing I didn't mention was that the site owner was the one who wanted to
"make sure people know they've gone elsewhere". This was in reaction to
industry regulations.

I share Lauri's opinion somewhat, but can envision reasons why this is a
valid approach. Without getting into any confidential stuff, what kind
of site is it and is the page with outside links kind of a "other links"
page or a "you've been redirected" page? Can't get the info the client
wants from log files?

My solution, as evidenced by my personal sites, is to just let them go
whereever they want.

Mine too. Although I may have a few left somewhere before I learned how
useless it was to "try and keep the viewer on my site."

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

 

[Karl Core]

I share Lauri's opinion somewhat, but can envision reasons why this is a
valid approach. Without getting into any confidential stuff, what kind of
site is it and is the page with outside links kind of a "other links" page
or a "you've been redirected" page? Can't get the info the client wants
from log files?

All I can say is that in certain industries (i.e. financial), there are
governmental regulations which organizations must comply with. Said
organization may want to share helpful information with its visitors, but
may be required to make it clear that they're not responsible for the
destination site's content.

 

[Uncle Pirate]

All I can say is that in certain industries (i.e. financial), there are
governmental regulations which organizations must comply with. Said
organization may want to share helpful information with its visitors, but
may be required to make it clear that they're not responsible for the
destination site's content.

I figured some such thing or some kind of a "login" system. In some
cases, you do what you got to do. I'd like to have seen my face the
other day when my supervisor, in discussing the school site I am
responsible for, mentioned pop ups.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

 

[Travis Newbury]

I have been lurking on this NG for a while but rarely post, simply because I
don't have much to post anyway....
The most recent being "What makes you think your users want a new window?"
Well What makes you think They Don't ?

Well there has been a bit of research on this. I tend to believe that
it is not as big an issue as some might like you to think it is. Think
about it, who do you know that get distraught over a pop up window?
Probably no one. With modern browsers or addon's to IE you can usually
eliminate the ones you don't want.

From a developers point of view. If you know people are stopping your
pop-ups, why would you want to put important content in something that
many people may never see. If you are going to use a pop up, let your
user know it. They can take the what ever action they need to.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Because I've spent hundreds of hours in a usability lab watching the
confusion and frustration of people interacting with web sites.

I have some issues the how a company (such as the one you work for)
chooses the sample they test. Does your company have documentation how
they chose their sample users? Please don't take this as a challenge,
but I am courious how you choose "typical" users. Seems you have to use
regulars, pay someone, or get professional volunteers. Were does your
sample come from? How do you get them? Again this is not challenging
you or your company's results.

Because the "majority" of designers are fucking morons who have no more
business creating websites than their visitors do.

Well no argument there...

 

[Travis Newbury]

If they want a new window they can open one themselves.

On one hand you (generic you not you personally) say the user is too
stupid to understand that a pop-up just happened, and will get lost.
But in the same breath, they are expert enough to decide if they want to
open a window or not.

The visitor cannot be dumb and smart at the same time.

I don't think it is as big an issue as some would like you to think.
The reason I see to NOT use pop-ups is not because you should give the
choice to the visitor, but rather because everyone (not everyone but you
know exactly what I mean) has a pop-up blocker now, and why would you
put content into a window that many people will never see.

If you have to use a pop-up, let the user know you are going to do it.

 

[Travis Newbury]

"Just remember to tell people in advance that you're going to
machine-gun them in the crotch and then spit on their lifeless corpse
and all's well."

Yea, good analogy... (the dots mean sarcasm)

 

[Travis Newbury]

Or decide for yourself when you want a new window or tab.

I seem to recall on a few of the porn thumbnail sites even thought the
site wants to open a new window, I can still right click on the link (or
image) and force it to a new tab.

I mean a friend of mine told me that.

ps, tabbed browsing was made for one handed browsing.

 

[Travis Newbury]

You have a usability expert, a marketing type and only one bullet.
Which one do you shoot ?

I'd shoot the little fucker that cut me off on I285 this morning!