New Window = No No ???

[Travis Newbury]

You have that choice to open a new window. When the designer sets links
to open in a new window, there is no choice...

You sure? I seem to recall being able to open it in a tab.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Mozilla 1.7.2. Is there a way to change that behaviour?

Right click on the link and open in a new tab?

 

[Uncle Pirate]

Right click on the link and open in a new tab?

OK smarty, got me there. Now, show me how to read the designer's
mind no matter where he/she is so I know ahead of time that I need to
right click and open in a new tab.

BTW, I agree with what you've said in some other posts in this thread.
It certainly isn't such a horrible thing about new windows, but I still
think it should be the user's choice. Lots of windows opening up is
annoying, minor annoyance, I grant you, annoying none the less.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

 

[Toby Inkster]

On one hand you (generic you not you personally) say the user is too
stupid to understand that a pop-up just happened, and will get lost.
But in the same breath, they are expert enough to decide if they want to
open a window or not.

Consider three classes of user:

* Very Stoopid - doesn't know what a new window is, certainly doesn't know
how to open one or close one, can't use a knife and fork properly, but
knows how to use the back button.

* Moderately Stoopid - knows what a new window is and how to close them,
but doesn't know how to right-click and open them, can use knives and
forks, but makes a slurping noise while eating soup.

* Not Stoopid - knows what a new window is, how to close them, and how to
open a new window by right-clicking or maybe Shift/Ctrl/whatever-clicking,
is a delight at dinner parties.

If you open a new window, VS will get very annoyed because the back button
doesn't work. NS will know how to deal with the new window, but will get
mildly annoyed because he didn't want a new window in the first place (if
he had, he could have done it himself) If MS did want a new window,
they'll be pleased. If MS didn't want a new window, then they'll be
annoyed.

So by opening a new window, you've annoyed two (or possibly three) of our
characters.

If you don't open a new window, VS will be happy. He doesn't know any
different. NS will be happy -- he can choose whether he wants a new window
or not. If MS wanted a new window, they'll be annoyed, but if they didn't,
then they'll be happy.

So by not opening a new window, you've kept two (or possibly three) of our
characters happy.

 

[Steve Pugh]

On one hand you (generic you not you personally) say the user is too
stupid to understand that a pop-up just happened, and will get lost.
But in the same breath, they are expert enough to decide if they want to
open a window or not.

target="_blank" or the JS equivalent is in the code for all users.
Some of those users will be novices with full screen windows who won't
realise that a new window has opened. Some of those users will be
experts who are capable of opening a new window/tab if and when they
want one. But you are forcing the new window on both groups of users,
and everyone else, regardless.

The visitor cannot be dumb and smart at the same time.

The audience as a whole can be, see above, As for the individual, they
can be too. One of the key things to bear in mind when considering any
sort of usability issue is that human beings are contrary and
illogical.

Steve

 

[Travis Newbury]

OK smarty, got me there. Now, show me how to read the designer's
mind no matter where he/she is so I know ahead of time that I need to
right click and open in a new tab.

Oh there is no "warning" (usually) that a new window will open. And for
the designer, the issue is not is the user will get confused or lost,
but rather that because of pop-up blockers, they never now they missed
something.

 

[Travis Newbury]

target="_blank" or the JS equivalent is in the code for all users.
Some of those users will be novices with full screen windows who won't
realise that a new window has opened. Some of those users will be
experts who are capable of opening a new window/tab if and when they
want one. But you are forcing the new window on both groups of users,
and everyone else, regardless.

I am not disagreeing that there are those that will get lost. I just
don't think it is as big an issue as it is led to be here.

That is NOT to say that I think you should use a pop-up. I think a MUCH
more compelling reason to not use pop-ups is pop-up blockers. I would
be more worried about the visitor NEVER seeing the content because they
have a pop-up blocker, than those stuck there because they are confused..

 

[Steve Pugh]

I am not disagreeing that there are those that will get lost. I just
don't think it is as big an issue as it is led to be here.

It's not just those that get lost. It's those that get slightly
peeved, it's those that automatically close all popup windows without
looking at the content, it's those that are running so much crud on
their computer that one more window opening actually does have a
performance hit, it's all the little reasons added together.

That is NOT to say that I think you should use a pop-up. I think a MUCH
more compelling reason to not use pop-ups is pop-up blockers. I would
be more worried about the visitor NEVER seeing the content because they
have a pop-up blocker, than those stuck there because they are confused..

Most popup blockers only block popups that are created automatically
(i.e. via onload events and the like). But there are some that block
all popups regardless of how they are created (Norton Internet
Security for example).

Steve

 

[Uncle Pirate]

Oh there is no "warning" (usually) that a new window will open. And for
the designer, the issue is not is the user will get confused or lost,
but rather that because of pop-up blockers, they never now they missed
something.

That's my point and what irritates (maybe a bit strong) me about windows
opening; no warning. I would not mind a new tab as much as a new
instance of the browser. And that is partly why I say new windows are
bad; limited choices because you can never know *before* clicking that link.

You are absolutely correct about not being as bad as many of us make it
out to be. It's the fact that many many minor annoyances can add up to
one big one. You're hearing about the big one made up of all those very
minor ones.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein