OK, Next Question.

[DLU]

<li>
<a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/">Saving Putah & Cach Creeks</a></li>

I want to make the link read Tuylome and on a mouse over to show Saving
Putah & Cach Creeks

As such:
<li>
<a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/">Tuylome</a></li>

Mouse over to read Saving Putah & Cach Creeks.

I will remove the target="_blank" from the surewest site.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[DLU]

<li>
<a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/">Saving Putah & Cach Creeks</a></li>

I want to make the link read Tuylome and on a mouse over to show Saving
Putah & Cach Creeks

As such:
<li>
<a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/">Tuylome</a></li>

Mouse over to read Saving Putah & Cach Creeks.

I will remove the target="_blank" from the surewest site.

Well I got it sort of, but do not seem to be able to change the font.

<a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/" title="Proecting the Putah &amp; Cach
Creeks Region">
<span class="style3">Tuylome</span></a>


--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

Well I got it sort of, but do not seem to be able to change the font.

<a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/" title="Proecting the Putah &amp; Cach
Creeks Region">
<span class="style3">Tuylome</span></a>

If the link is a navigation link, then I think you are all right using
the title attribute. You cannot change the font, it is part of the
user's UI.

If the link is not a navigation link, then you should include the whole
verbiage, eg. <a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/">Protecting the Putah
&amp; Cach Creeks Region</a> . Do not depend on a title attribute to
attract someone's eye. Additionally, title attributes are not picked up
as link text by SE's.

 

[DLU]

If the link is a navigation link, then I think you are all right using
the title attribute. You cannot change the font, it is part of the
user's UI.

If the link is not a navigation link, then you should include the whole
verbiage, eg. <a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/">Protecting the Putah
&amp; Cach Creeks Region</a> . Do not depend on a title attribute to
attract someone's eye. Additionally, title attributes are not picked up
as link text by SE's.

One of the Tuleyome committee members asked me to make the link to show
Tulyeome, and could I make it so a mouseover would shoe the protecting
etc. There should be a way to make a popup but I have figured out that
one yet.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

One of the Tuleyome committee members asked me to make the link to
show Tulyeome, and could I make it so a mouseover would shoe the
protecting etc. There should be a way to make a popup but I have
figured out that one yet.

You need to show the committe member this post. As I said, the title
element is not guaranteed to attract someone's attention, and it is not
considered link text be search engines (very important). You could
maybe do one of those Yahoo style popups, although I find them very
annoying and they will not work for users without javascript.

 

[Els]

You need to show the committe member this post. As I said, the title
element is not guaranteed to attract someone's attention, and it is not
considered link text be search engines (very important). You could
maybe do one of those Yahoo style popups, although I find them very
annoying and they will not work for users without javascript.

Or a CSS style floating box:

<a class="special" href="http://www.tuleyome.org/"><span
class="hoverbox">Protecting the Putah &amp; Cach Creeks
Region</span><span class="style3">Tuylome</span></a>

in CSS:
a.special{
position:relative;
}
a.special span.hoverbox{
position:absolute;
left:100%;
top:100%;
width:10em;
background:white;
font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
font-size:75%;
font-weight:bold;
padding:3px;
border:1px solid silver;
display:none;
}
a.special:hover span.hoverbox{
display:block;
}

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

One of the Tuleyome committee members asked me to make the link to
show Tulyeome,

That's a strange request for a misspelling, but the one you use in the
markup snippet is a quite different misspelling (Tuylome). Seriously,
getting the name (and the URL) correctly spelled is far more important than
a play with title attributes.

While we are at the basic issues of communication, you should learn how to
post to Usenet - including Subject lines that make sense, quotations that
quote only the essential part, sig rules, etc. You could start from
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html

and could I make it so a mouseover would shoe the
protecting etc. There should be a way to make a popup but I have
figured out that one yet.

If you have something relevant to say, say it. Don't hide it in an attribute
of an element. If it's not relevant, don't say it. In a few borderline
cases, the title attribute is useful but only for making it clearer what the
link points to, such as spelling out an abbreviation if you are using an
abbreviation as link text (hopefully for some good reason). Using the title
attribute for advertisements or slogans is just pointless (it does not work)
or worse (causes irritation).

Here's something that makes sense, in a suitable context:

<a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/">Tuleyome</a>, a nonprofit organization
for protecting the Putah Creek and Cache Creek Region

 

[DLU]

That's a strange request for a misspelling, but the one you use in the
markup snippet is a quite different misspelling (Tuylome). Seriously,
getting the name (and the URL) correctly spelled is far more important
than a play with title attributes.

Well occasionally some of make mistakes in spelling. I suppose you do
not but my fingers do not always hit the correct keys.

While we are at the basic issues of communication, you should learn how
to post to Usenet - including Subject lines that make sense, quotations
that quote only the essential part, sig rules, etc. You could start from
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html

I think if you go to:
http://groups.google.com/
An search for The Spammish Inquisition, you will see that I have
probably been posting to USENET at least as long as you, and probably
longer. I am not sure what you are getting at. I asked a simple
question and I got some good answers. Those responders did not seem to
have a problem understanding the question.

domain: tut.fi
descr: Tampereen teknillinen yliopisto
descr: 02459034
address: Tietohallinto/Martti Jokipii
address: PL 692
address: 33101
address: Tampere
phone: +358 3 3115 11
status: Granted
created: 1.1.1991
expires: 31.8.2009
nserver: kaustinen.cc.tut.fi 130.230.102.10 [OK]
nserver: ns-secondary.funet.fi [OK]
nserver: ressu.cc.tut.fi 130.230.24.10 [OK]

Well I guess that is to be expected from your part of the world.
A whole lesson of dont's. Let me give you don't #8, Don't try to tell
the rest of the world how to behave. Learn some positives.

If you have something relevant to say, say it. Don't hide it in an
attribute of an element. If it's not relevant, don't say it. In a few
borderline cases, the title attribute is useful but only for making it
clearer what the link points to, such as spelling out an abbreviation if
you are using an abbreviation as link text (hopefully for some good
reason). Using the title attribute for advertisements or slogans is just
pointless (it does not work) or worse (causes irritation).

Excuse me? What the hell are you talking about?
I am working to get the link to look like one of the people in the
organization would like it to look, or at least like she thinks she
would like it to look. If that is what the owner of the site wants, that
is what they will get.

Here's something that makes sense, in a suitable context:

<a href="http://www.tuleyome.org/">Tuleyome</a>, a nonprofit
organization for protecting the Putah Creek and Cache Creek Region

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[DLU]

Yes, I will be communicating with he person and letting her see just
what the different links will look like.

Or a CSS style floating box:

<a class="special" href="http://www.tuleyome.org/"><span
class="hoverbox">Protecting the Putah &amp; Cach Creeks
Region</span><span class="style3">Tuylome</span></a>

in CSS:
a.special{
position:relative;
}
a.special span.hoverbox{
position:absolute;
left:100%;
top:100%;
width:10em;
background:white;
font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
font-size:75%;
font-weight:bold;
padding:3px;
border:1px solid silver;
display:none;
}
a.special:hover span.hoverbox{
display:block;
}

Elegant solution. I do not have a handle on hoverboxes yet.
Putting the title in the link gives a small display. I tried a pop up
box but it is really intrusive and it has to be closed.
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

Excuse me? What the hell are you talking about?
I am working to get the link to look like one of the people in the
organization would like it to look, or at least like she thinks she
would like it to look. If that is what the owner of the site wants,
that is what they will get.

I said the same thing that Jukka said, if the content is important, do
not depend on a title attribute.

One of your responsibilities as a developer/consultant is to educate
your clients. If a client wants to lay in the roadway during rush hour,
advise against that.

Clearly, this is not that drastic, but, again, a title element is not
going to be picked up by a search engine as link text. The more link
text, the better, within reason, of course. Using javascript will not
work for users with js disabled. You could go the CSS route, but that
will fail for UA's without CSS support, or might not support that CSS.

To quote Jukka:
Take this thread to your client, and advise her of the best way to do
this. Don't let clients lie in the road during rush hour.

 

[DLU]

Or a CSS style floating box:

<a class="special" href="http://www.tuleyome.org/"><span
class="hoverbox">Protecting the Putah &amp; Cach Creeks
Region</span><span class="style3">Tuylome</span></a>

in CSS:
a.special{
position:relative;
}
a.special span.hoverbox{
position:absolute;
left:100%;
top:100%;
width:10em;
background:white;
font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
font-size:75%;
font-weight:bold;
padding:3px;
border:1px solid silver;
display:none;
}
a.special:hover span.hoverbox{
display:block;
}

That works really nice. Thanks.

And for Neredbojias I took out all the target="_blank" commands.

Now my question is: what is the purpose of the a. before the special in
the CSS. I have read HTML dog several times but just do not seem to be
able to see the connection. I have to find a book on CSS. Guess I will
head off the Fry's and see what they have today. Trouble with going
there is I see other things that cost me money.


--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[Els]

That works really nice. Thanks.

And for Neredbojias I took out all the target="_blank" commands.

Now my question is: what is the purpose of the a. before the special in
the CSS. I have read HTML dog several times but just do not seem to be
able to see the connection.

The 'a' refers to the 'a' element. As in <a href...>

Without the 'a', you would be referring to any other element that also
had the class special.

I have to find a book on CSS. Guess I will
head off the Fry's and see what they have today. Trouble with going
there is I see other things that cost me money.

Guess you will have to exercise some will power if you don't want to
spend more

You don't really need a book though - all the info is available
online. When I first started using CSS, I learned a lot from Eric
Meyer's site: http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/
As you can see on that page, he's also written books on the subject,
so if you prefer a book, I'd have a look at those.

 

[dorayme]

Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
Excuse me? What the hell are you talking about?

Korpela is talking about simple straightforward solid ways of doing
things that communicate well and are as rock solid as you get across
browsers. If you do things otherwise, with fancy footwork, it can
actually damage this solidity of performance and communication. It was a
simple point.

I am working to get the link to look like one of the people in the
organization would like it to look, or at least like she thinks she
would like it to look. If that is what the owner of the site wants, that
is what they will get.

This issue about clients has been gone over a fair bit. You need to take
clients in hand in an authoritative way. Hire a big black car and pile
men into it and go around and see your client... They *will* appreciate
being so vigorously looked after. Refer to your practice as your Client
Pampering Service.

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Excuse me? What the hell are you talking about?

You have clearly expressed your comprehensional difficulties and your
willingness to misbehave by continuing to violate most netiquette items. So
don't expect any more explanations.

I am working to get the link to look like one of the people in the
organization would like it to look, or at least like she thinks she
would like it to look. If that is what the owner of the site wants,
that is what they will get.

Apparently not from you, it seems. Maybe you should tell them to hire a
person who can do what they want. (In fact they might prefer a person who
instead does what they need, but they just don't know that yet.)

 

[mynameisnobodyodyssea]

I agree with Jukka and others that it is better to keep things simple
with <a> links. The anchor text is important both to people and search
engines,
and it is better not to ask of people to hover over a link in order to
see what it is about.

 

[DLU]

You have clearly expressed your comprehensional difficulties and your
willingness to misbehave by continuing to violate most netiquette items.
So don't expect any more explanations.

I certainly have a problem comprehending your opprobrium. You seem to
have your own view of nettiquette. Maybe it is the Nordic culture but
most of us are a bit more tolerant of simple errors.

I got some good explanations from the others here, they have been most
helpful and courteous.

Apparently not from you, it seems. Maybe you should tell them to hire a
person who can do what they want. (In fact they might prefer a person
who instead does what they need, but they just don't know that yet.)

We are all volunteers on this committee, no one gets paid except those
who print the newsletters. I do not tell them what they should want, I
set it up and ask them if they like it. We do not need people who say,
"We have ways to make you like this." If these people think something
related to them would look better a certain way, I try to accommodate
them. So far I have not heard any complaints, a few corrections and
suggestions, but the committee members like it. The steering committee
has the final say and that is that.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[DLU]

I agree with Jukka and others that it is better to keep things simple
with <a> links. The anchor text is important both to people and search
engines,
and it is better not to ask of people to hover over a link in order to
see what it is about.

I put it up for them to look at and if they like the hover then they get
it. Up to now all the links have been <li><a> links, but it did not show
the particular organizations name and I am trying to keep the text
short, one line if possible.

I thought they were pretty simple, except the Tuleomey people wanted
the organizations name presented. I do this for low pay and few perks,
like I get to buy my own gas to travel to CNRCC meetings in San Luis
Obispo, and pay for the food also.

http://home.surewest.net/bikesac/bikesac/
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[mynameisnobodyodyssea]

I thought they were pretty simple, except the Tuleomey people wanted
the organizations name presented.

You could write something like

<h2>Tuleyome</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.tuleyome. org/">Saving Putah and Cach Creeks</
a></li>
.... more links...
</ul>

or <li><a href="http://www.tuleyome. org/">Tuleyome - Saving Putah and
Cach Creeks</a></li>

Keep in mind that text within heading tags (like <h2> or <h3>) has
good visibility both for people and search engines.

I still think it is better not to rely on people mouse-hovering
over links to see what the links are about,
this is also an accessibility issue,
not to mention people using mobile phone browsers.....

 

[DLU]

You could write something like

<h2>Tuleyome</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.tuleyome. org/">Saving Putah and Cach Creeks</
a></li>
... more links...
</ul>

Good way to go, that makes it pretty simple.

or <li><a href="http://www.tuleyome. org/">Tuleyome - Saving Putah and
Cach Creeks</a></li>

Again, the reason I wanted to get away from this is to keep the link on
one line.

Keep in mind that text within heading tags (like <h2> or <h3>) has
good visibility both for people and search engines.

I still think it is better not to rely on people mouse-hovering
over links to see what the links are about,
this is also an accessibility issue,
not to mention people using mobile phone browsers.....

Or Blackberrys also I guess.
Since I have a phone that makes and takes calls mostly, I did not
consider the roving user.
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[Neredbojias]

Els wrote:


That works really nice. Thanks.

I was intending to propose basically the same tactic but Els beat me to
it. Drat!

And for Neredbojias I took out all the target="_blank" commands.

Good man.

Now my question is: what is the purpose of the a. before the special
in the CSS. I have read HTML dog several times but just do not seem
to be able to see the connection. I have to find a book on CSS.
Guess I will head off the Fry's and see what they have today.
Trouble with going there is I see other things that cost me money.

Just means "anchor". For instance, "a.crap" means any anchor with the
class "crap" but nothing else even with the same class.

<a href="example.com" class="crap">This Is (a.)Crap</a>

<span class="crap">This Isn't (a.)Crap</span>