Transparency

[Els]

Here in Sydney you can get good and reliable dialup for $20 Australian a
month, and you can be on all day and generally not be kicked off. You can
pay less and more with varying results... What is a tempting budget
conscious strategy is some ADSL for about $29 with 200 MB download limits
and you get slowed down to 56 or even 64 after limit is reached. You get the
huge advantage of being able to use your line again as a phone and are not
otherwise worse off. There are just some up-front costs of about $100 to get
the thing established (often they will throw in a suitable modem).

And that's what they call civilized? What good is a 200MB download
limit?
I have unlimited data transfer, 576 kbps up/3392 kbps down, including
a telephone line (VoIP) that lets me phone for free 24/7 to all
landlines. Costs me 35 Euro per month, and that's one of the more
expensive ones.

 

[Els]

Well, you have to take into account replacement cost of broken equipment
after it is thrown in frustration on slow loading sites...

<g>

 

[Richard]

Here in Sydney you can get good and reliable dialup for $20 Australian a
month, and you can be on all day and generally not be kicked off.

You do have to figure in the hidden costs though.

If you don't want to tie up your only land line you need an extra one. If
you do tie up your only land line you will be tempted to use the cell phone
to call out for the required pizza etc. Expensive.

If you don't tie up your land line then remember that it's 20c or so for
each phone call to reconnect.

I convinced the bloke next door to move from the AU$20 a month dial up plan
to AU$45 a month (then) cable, basically by asking him how many phone calls
his daughters were making to connect. Turned out to be AU$40 per month in
phone calls.

 

[Els]

You do have to figure in the hidden costs though.

If you don't want to tie up your only land line you need an extra one. If
you do tie up your only land line you will be tempted to use the cell phone
to call out for the required pizza etc. Expensive.

If you don't tie up your land line then remember that it's 20c or so for
each phone call to reconnect.

I convinced the bloke next door to move from the AU$20 a month dial up plan
to AU$45 a month (then) cable, basically by asking him how many phone calls
his daughters were making to connect. Turned out to be AU$40 per month in
phone calls.

And after he got cable, his daughters used the phone any less?

 

[Lauri Raittila]

Limits on broadband? Never used in Finland, which is getting problem.
After all, how can you offer 8/1M for 20euros when it can/will then be
used full rate 24h by some people...

But 200MB a day is not that much, IMHO.

Installing costs money in Finland if you are stupid enough to not ask to
get rid of it, or if you live somewhere far away (incase you might not
get broadband anyway...)

In Finland, only older people use dial-up, because only older people
still have landline phone.

Of course, it all depends where you live. Remember brucie...

I have unlimited data transfer, 576 kbps up/3392 kbps down, including
a telephone line (VoIP) that lets me phone for free 24/7 to all
landlines. Costs me 35 Euro per month, and that's one of the more
expensive ones.

I have 100M full duplex, don't know how many people in same swich, but
never had any slowliness problems in my end, price is included to rent...
(which I is too high though...)

 

[Els]

Limits on broadband? Never used in Finland, which is getting problem.
After all, how can you offer 8/1M for 20euros when it can/will then be
used full rate 24h by some people...

But 200MB a day is not that much, IMHO.

Installing costs money in Finland if you are stupid enough to not ask to
get rid of it, or if you live somewhere far away (incase you might not
get broadband anyway...)

In Finland, only older people use dial-up, because only older people
still have landline phone.

So, mobile conversations are cheap then? Or young Fins don't have real
conversations on the phone anymore?

Of course, it all depends where you live. Remember brucie...

Yup, I remember - satelite connection.

I have 100M full duplex, don't know how many people in same swich, but
never had any slowliness problems in my end, price is included to rent...
(which I is too high though...)

You're not in Holland anymore than?

 

[Richard]

Richard wrote:

And after he got cable, his daughters used the phone any less?

Yes.

They were using chat (or whatever it is) anyway to communicate with their
friends. It's much more high-tech to use a computer to discuss those barbies
than that old fashioned telephone.

 

[Richard]

Limits on broadband? Never used in Finland, which is getting problem.
After all, how can you offer 8/1M for 20euros when it can/will then be
used full rate 24h by some people...

But 200MB a day is not that much, IMHO.

No. We are talking about 200MB per *month*.

http://www.bigpond.com/internet-plans/broadband/adsl/

Scroll down a bit to where the various plans are detailed in a table.

After your 200MB it's 15 cents per additional MB. Plus, you can not save up
any unused MB to carry over to the next month.

Of course here in .au we have one of the most expensive
broadband/dialup/satelite/whatever costs in the world.

 

[Dylan Parry]

Using a pointed stick and pebbles, Richard scraped:

After your 200MB it's 15 cents per additional MB. Plus, you can not save up
any unused MB to carry over to the next month.

Wow! I thought that my 2GB limit plus £2 per additional GB was a bit
restrictive!

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Blinky the Shark wrote:

Which civilization is that? Does the advantage of not paying per
minute weigh up against possible other disadvantages?

Sure, unless you want your online time to be limited by that ticking
taxi meter. See below for example of taxi meter.

So - you pay per byte? Or per month?

Month. Unlimited time. That's the DU norm, over here. Range for
unlimited-time DU is $10US to $20US a month, depending on who you're with.
For example, I have one friend who does a $10 plan; for that he gets
something like 100 minutes a month. Cheap? Sure. Value? Not much,
since value is a function of both cost *and* benefits. Another $10
joint only gives you http (through their own browser, only) and email;
nothing else.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

dorayme wrote:

And that's what they call civilized? What good is a 200MB download

I was the one who used "civilized", and you're usually pretty much in
tune with such humor.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Well, you have to take into account replacement cost of broken
equipment after it is thrown in frustration on slow loading sites...

But, seriously...

Slow? I leave. Someone else will have that information or product. If
a site would rather show me Flash than give me the information I want
or sell me the product I want, I'll find someone else.

 

[Els]

I was the one who used "civilized", and you're usually pretty much in
tune with such humor.

I know (2x)

 

[Els]

Sure, unless you want your online time to be limited by that ticking
taxi meter. See below for example of taxi meter.


Month. Unlimited time. That's the DU norm, over here. Range for
unlimited-time DU is $10US to $20US a month, depending on who you're with.
For example, I have one friend who does a $10 plan; for that he gets
something like 100 minutes a month. Cheap? Sure.

That must be including use of the line then, right?
Not sure how to combine "unlimited time" with "100 minutes" though..

Value? Not much,
since value is a function of both cost *and* benefits. Another $10
joint only gives you http (through their own browser, only) and email;
nothing else.

I'm so happy with my DSL now

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Blinky the Shark wrote:

That must be including use of the line then, right?

Huh? Yes, without a phone line, he can't connect. I must be missing
your question.

Not sure how to combine "unlimited time" with "100 minutes" though..

Why try? He has a $10 plan. As I specified, it only offers 100
minutes a month. I didn't say it was an unlimited play. Some $10
plans are unlimited, I believe. Some isn't all.

I'm so happy with my DSL now

And I'm happy with my unlimited dialup. Life is good.

 

[Els]

Huh? Yes, without a phone line, he can't connect. I must be missing
your question.

I thought you were talking about a package of $10 which you pay to the
ISP. Don't know about the USA, but here you pay for the line, and for
the minutes separately. Also, Internet dial up numbers are charged
differently than regular phone numbers. So - I thought $10 was for 100
minutes to an Internet phone number only. (which would be expensive
)

Why try? He has a $10 plan. As I specified, it only offers 100
minutes a month. I didn't say it was an unlimited play. Some $10
plans are unlimited, I believe. Some isn't all.

One more misunderstanding then. You said "Range for unlimited-time DU
is $10US to $20US a month, depending on who you're with.", and then
immediately followed with "For example..", so I thought that would be
an example of such an unlimited-time $10/month package.

Never mind - I do understand now

And I'm happy with my unlimited dialup. Life is good.

 

[Edwin van der Vaart]

Blinky the Shark wrote:

[snip]

Someone else will have that information or product. If
a site would rather show me Flash than give me the information I want
or sell me the product I want, I'll find someone else.

Flash?? You mean Flesh.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Blinky the Shark wrote:

I thought you were talking about a package of $10 which you pay to the
ISP. Don't know about the USA, but here you pay for the line, and for

I *am* talking about ISP charges.

the minutes separately. Also, Internet dial up numbers are charged

So do I. So does he. We pay the phone company for the phone line. We
pay the ISP for the connection.

differently than regular phone numbers. So - I thought $10 was for 100
minutes to an Internet phone number only. (which would be expensive
)

No, it's for the ISP. The phone bill is for the phone company; i.e.,
the line.

One more misunderstanding then. You said "Range for unlimited-time DU
is $10US to $20US a month, depending on who you're with.", and then
immediately followed with "For example..", so I thought that would be
an example of such an unlimited-time $10/month package.

That's an example of a plan within that range, yes. My bad on "for
example" making it sound like I meant it was an example of a $10
unlimited play.

Never mind - I do understand now

Suuuure.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Blinky the Shark wrote:

[snip]

Someone else will have that information or product. If
a site would rather show me Flash than give me the information I want
or sell me the product I want, I'll find someone else.

Flash?? You mean Flesh.

Nah. For flesh, I'll wait.

 

[Els]

I *am* talking about ISP charges.
Hmm...


So do I. So does he. We pay the phone company for the phone line. We
pay the ISP for the connection.

Okay, so...

No, it's for the ISP. The phone bill is for the phone company; i.e.,
the line.

So, the $10 plan is for 100 minutes of connection to the ISP - which
means the phone line is not included, cause that's paid on the
phonebill. Or am I misunderstanding again? :S

That is really expensive! 10 cent per minute? I find dial-up in
Holland expensive already! Using a free (no monthly fee) ISP for
dial-up costs almost Euro 0.05 per minute. (half price after
19.00hrs). Paying a monthly fee of Euro 1.95 will lower the price per
minute to the rate for local phone calls, which is Euro 0.0289 per
minute. (half after 19.00hrs).
There's a free minutes package too btw - 10 hours for 8 Euro.

Suuuure.

<g>
Did I understand this time? ;-)