A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life

[gaidar]

The only answer is possible to lwti: Hey man, just stop doing two things:
stop writing such silly posts and STOP WORKING IN 'IT' FIELD, or, even
better, STOP WORKING AT ALL, you understand nothing about WORKING and
THINKING. So, just, calm down and do the only thinkg you can really do - sit
on the couch and drink beer.

Gaidar, VB MVP

 

[William Stacey [MVP]]

I think you meant to reply to lwti and not me (at least I hope so
Nicely said.

--
William Stacey [MVP]

I have been working in the computer industry for over 30 years--I probably
got started before you were born. I have built countless applications for
companies large and small--some of which are probably still in use today. I

..../

 

[W.G. Ryan eMVP]

<< Too many MVPs are full of sh!t and little more than pimps playing on the
neophytes with the same lame and often misleading or false comments passing
for 'help' again and again and again. There are many motives why this would
occur. Some malevolent and others not. This is really evident in the
FrontPage newsgroups where I am astounded at the lies of ommission and
manipulation that occurs.>>
I don't go there at all and I don't think I know any front page MVPs
although I may. However even assuming for a second that your statement is
in fact true/correct, that is one newsgroup. Ok, so maybe you were just
using it as an illustration and there are others. To say "No He's right" is
to imply that the majority of the NGs expereince this phenomenon. That
simply isn't true. Take THIS very Newsgroup for instance. There are NO
ADO.NET MVPs, the people that are here do it outside of their group and it's
pretty safe to assume do it purely to help others. Look at ADO.NET in
particular, and look at boththe MVPs and NonMVPS. Typically , you see peopl
ehere just trying to help out other folks. I bet the technical accuracy of
replies from MVPs in particular is probably well over 98% correct and I'm
being generous. GOogle indexes this NG as it does others so it's pretty
easy to document any examples that would refute my point. So even assuming
that your frontpage example is correct (and I'm only agreeing to that for
the sake of argument), the ADO.NET ng would offset it thereby leaving it a
draw. As far as no one following up. I know that in 2004 alone I got a ton
of emails of gratitude for the help I gave. I quit counting at 200. And
I'm hardly top of the food chain in that regard. So if well over 200 people
decided that my help was important enough to them to take time and write a
thank you - I don't call that trivial. And the truth is that many others do
a LOT more than I do, a LOT more.

frustrates me to no end but I'm simply tired of getting into it any more
as most of the time somebody will post to show the MVP is a pimp but the
OP never or rarely comes back to even thank anybody or remain involved in
the what can then evolve into a conflict. Even when the MVP is right on
the money the OP is nowhere to be seen. Still, the OP of this topic has a
valid point.>>

In what sense are you using the word Pimp? Where I'm from it's a totally
complimentary term indicating someone has complete and thorough command of
something. As far as OPS coming back. well, that's true but that's the
nature of newsgroups and has absolutely NOTHING to do with an MVP. THere
are tons of Newsgroups that are non-ms and don't even have MVPS and this
occurs. It's just the nature of newsgroups.

And honestly, if you have examples of where some MVPS are habitually wrong,
you really ought to contact them with it just like you would anyone else. No
one benefits by having incorrect information out there and every MVP I know
would gladlly admit when they are wrong

could not do without and bless the ground they walk on. This can be a real
paradox. >>

Come on, these are some strong words. I have been an MVP for two years and I
know a LOT of people in the program. I dont' know one that is a confirmed
Liar and Cheat, although considering the number of people in the program,
there may be a few. How would I even go about being a cheat in a newsgroup
if I wanted to? Again, even assuming that you have proof of a MVP being a
liar and cheat, in proportion to the number in the program, that numbers has
to be so small as to be inconsequential - doesn't it?

>>

Do tell ;-)

 

[Bob Lehmann]

I've got something up my sleeve though
ooooh! oooooh! I've got something up my sleeve too!

Bob Lehmann

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Q: "lwti" wrote: "all you do is give BAD advice to those seeking it here..."

A: Care to site any concrete examples or are you just making oblique references?

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| You guys who hang around here are some of the sorriest and most incompetent
| programmers( if you can even be called that) ever!!!
|
| The only thing you know are reference books and theory that's been proven
| wrong in the real world
| You sit in front of your computer answering the SAME nickel and dime
| questions day after day, week after week, year after year so you can't
| possibly have any real experience in making an actual program and all you do
| is give BAD advice to those seeking it here.
|
| As far as I am concerned, Microsoft should end the MVP program as all that
| it fosters is wanna be programmers who only give bad advice and never DO as
| they ADVISE. You have essentially ZERO experience in coding .NET to begin
| with.
|
|
| DEAR MICROSOFT:
| Kill off the MVP program. It only fosters people who strive for publicity in
| trying to get a programming job as opposed to being actually able to do the
| job. The MVP's only make programmers and the software industry look bad as
| a whole as these people are supposed to be MOST VALUEABLE....when in they in
| fact are the MOST WORTHLESS programmers ever, especially when they actually
| do get a job they only sit around with theory, and all that nonsense of
| architecture and best practices only to not even deliver the project to
| begin with. Why not put all that theory and knowledge to the test and
| actually see if it really works? Ha ha ha..like you can even do that?
|
| All these people do is get silly certification and they STILL CANNOT GET A
| JOB!!! Much less actually do the job.....Imagine that!!! It's no wonder
| companies go off shore, as the quality of software sucks anyway, so why pay
| extra in the US when it's going to be late, buggy and not what the customer
| wanted anyway.
|
|
| MESSAGE TO MVP's:
| WAKE UP!!! START DOING SOME REAL WORK or someone will make sure the world
| knows how incompetent you MVP's are and if you think you will have a hard
| time now flashing your MVP and Certification letters around, wait till they
| know the real truth about you and will think twice about even mentioning you
| have a certification or MVP status......and no talking in front of user
| groups don't count as most those groups are also like you, unemployed, can't
| get the job done right.

 

[John B]

lwti crawled out from under his rock and dribbled a whole lot if crap
which was then snipped as a waste of space:

Concerns noted and given the attention they deserve.

Seriously, get a girlfriend (or boyfriend if you're that way inclined).

JB

 

[Karl Levinson, mvp]

The bottom line is that you haven't given any useful suggestions on how to
make the MS newsgroups successful. Even if the MS MVP program was made up
of nothing but idiots [which it is not], the MVP program would even then do
nothing at all to prevent qualified people from posting answers here, both
MVP and otherwise. MVPs and the MVP program don't prevent non-MVPs from
posting answers here.

The MVP program is probably the only way MS can try to ensure that people
keep coming back to the newsgroups to give free answers. If you can think
of a better way MS can ensure these newsgroups continue to provide free
helpful answers to people that come here, please provide it. Killing the
MVP program does nothing helpful to ensure this.

In fact, all of the MVPs here started out as non-MVPs, and most of them
would probably still continue posting here even without the MVP program.
Note that the MVP program is not entirely about supporting these newsgroups,
but also other forums by recognizing quality posters to
broadbandreports.com, sysinternals.com and various other web sites and
support areas. Killing the MVP program would remove support not just from
these newsgroups but other quality forums as well.

The MVP program has little to do with Microsoft certifications or publicity.
A surprising amount of MVPs do not have any MS certification. Many of them
[including myself] do indeed have jobs and real-world experience.

Your inappropriate cross-posting suggests that you are a troll that is just
trying to insult people and provoke a reaction. Your disregard of best
practices is also curious. Sure, there are times when it is not feasible or
ideal to implement all best practices, but it is always a good idea to at
least know what those best practices are and implement at least some of
them.

 

[C-Services Holland b.v.]

<snip>
Job isn't an abbreviation of some sorts. So why do you insist on putting
dots between the letters? Go get a life .. please..

 

[Bonj]

The problem is that you need to have been posting for a VERY long time to
become an MVP - like decades rather than years. Back in the day when
Microsoft was still young, and computers were only just coming in to
workplaces - the managers that were doing the hiring of programmers didn't
understand or even trust computers, so they had to demand formal, on-paper
qualifications from anyone seeking a programming job. No offence to them,
but most MVPs therefore (a) are probably at least middle-aged, and (b) have
had to fork out through the nose for formal training and qualifications.
Some therefore tend to be slightly resentful of younger people who have done
well for themselves through being self-taught, something which has grown
easier now that a lot of the people that learnt IT many moons ago are now
getting to be managers. (I reiterate - *no offence* to them - I can see how
this can be justified for the most part given the effort and money they've
had to put into their career development, but each method of learning has
its strengths.) This tends to propogate the characteristic of the MVP
program of being an 'insiders club', thus adding even further weight to the
requirement to have been 'at it since the dawn of time'.
I do make the reservation that some MVPs actively make an effort against
this effect, but this is the general trend, and evolution over the course of
history is hard to fight. While some MVPs are very good and can always be
relied upon to get you out of a rut, it's clear that the requirement they
had when they were starting out to be formally trained explains the tendency
to often just post links to blogs or to only be able to answer pub-quiz type
questions.
It's just two different sides of the coin - some people are more mature,
experienced and formally trained and qualified - others are younger, more
flexible, ambitious and innovative. It's the former group who have largely
dominated the occupation of MVPs - this isn't a problem if you accept the
effects of the notion of superiority that they have - and to be fair, can
probably justify some right to having.

 

[Patrice]

I would suggest :

1) Post your question
2) Read answers and disregard MVP anwsers if you want

As a side note, I would recommend also posting first under a neutral form.
There is no use to flame anyone especially if it turns out that the
"feature" you don't like is just an option you can disable.

Patrice

 

[Patrick Olurotimi Ige]

Bill don't mind whoever it is..
They say if u WAIT u waste..
He is wasting his time...

 

[Wilbur Slice]

what's the valid point then? That MVP's are humans and error from time
to time? Whoa, what a hell of an insight.

What I don't understand is: if these people complaining (and I
suspect it's actually just that one guy - he posted originally under
the name "rhat" or something like that) ... if these people don't
like the MVP's, then why do they read postings from MVP's? Why not
just ignore them? Why bitch and moan so vehemently?

Like I said before, I have received GREAT and MUCH-appreciated help
from MVP's over the years, and I have nothing but thanks for them. If
they are occasionally wrong, BFD. We're all human.

 

[W.G. Ryan eMVP]

Bonj - I don't know if that's true. I'm 32 and I'm one of the older folks
in my MVP peer group. There are some people older than me, but most are
younger, but a good few years. As a matter of fact, even out side of my
product group , I'm usually the 'old' guy whenever we meet. Again, there's
a lot of people in the program and sure, many are in the same demographic
you describe (at least in terms of age) but I've been an MVP for two years
now and since the onset, most of the people in my group and that I know are
at least 4 years younger than me.

It sucks too b/c I didn't think I'd feel 'old' before 35 and when I'm
hanging out at most events, I'm usually one of the oldest MVPS there

 

[W.G. Ryan eMVP]

Amen!

--
W.G. Ryan, MVP

www.tibasolutions.com | www.devbuzz.com | www.knowdotnet.com

The bottom line is that you haven't given any useful suggestions on how to
make the MS newsgroups successful. Even if the MS MVP program was made up
of nothing but idiots [which it is not], the MVP program would even then
do
nothing at all to prevent qualified people from posting answers here, both
MVP and otherwise. MVPs and the MVP program don't prevent non-MVPs from
posting answers here.

The MVP program is probably the only way MS can try to ensure that people
keep coming back to the newsgroups to give free answers. If you can think
of a better way MS can ensure these newsgroups continue to provide free
helpful answers to people that come here, please provide it. Killing the
MVP program does nothing helpful to ensure this.

In fact, all of the MVPs here started out as non-MVPs, and most of them
would probably still continue posting here even without the MVP program.
Note that the MVP program is not entirely about supporting these
newsgroups,
but also other forums by recognizing quality posters to
broadbandreports.com, sysinternals.com and various other web sites and
support areas. Killing the MVP program would remove support not just from
these newsgroups but other quality forums as well.

The MVP program has little to do with Microsoft certifications or
publicity.
A surprising amount of MVPs do not have any MS certification. Many of
them
[including myself] do indeed have jobs and real-world experience.

Your inappropriate cross-posting suggests that you are a troll that is
just
trying to insult people and provoke a reaction. Your disregard of best
practices is also curious. Sure, there are times when it is not feasible
or
ideal to implement all best practices, but it is always a good idea to at
least know what those best practices are and implement at least some of
them.

You guys who hang around here are some of the sorriest and most incompetent
programmers( if you can even be called that) ever!!!

The only thing you know are reference books and theory that's been proven
wrong in the real world
You sit in front of your computer answering the SAME nickel and dime
questions day after day, week after week, year after year so you can't
possibly have any real experience in making an actual program and all you do
is give BAD advice to those seeking it here.

As far as I am concerned, Microsoft should end the MVP program as all
that
it fosters is wanna be programmers who only give bad advice and never DO as
they ADVISE. You have essentially ZERO experience in coding .NET to begin
with.


DEAR MICROSOFT:
Kill off the MVP program. It only fosters people who strive for publicity in
trying to get a programming job as opposed to being actually able to do the
job. The MVP's only make programmers and the software industry look bad as
a whole as these people are supposed to be MOST VALUEABLE....when in they in
fact are the MOST WORTHLESS programmers ever, especially when they actually
do get a job they only sit around with theory, and all that nonsense of
architecture and best practices only to not even deliver the project to
begin with. Why not put all that theory and knowledge to the test and
actually see if it really works? Ha ha ha..like you can even do that?

All these people do is get silly certification and they STILL CANNOT GET
A
JOB!!!

 

[William \(Bill\) Vaughn]

As with many characterizations, this description of MVPs is very distorted.
See >>>

--
____________________________________
William (Bill) Vaughn
Author, Mentor, Consultant
Microsoft MVP
www.betav.com/blog/billva
www.betav.com
www.sqlreportingservices.net
Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
__________________________________

The problem is that you need to have been posting for a VERY long time to
become an MVP - like decades rather than years.

Back in the day when

Microsoft was still young, and computers were only just coming in to
workplaces - the managers that were doing the hiring of programmers didn't
understand or even trust computers, so they had to demand formal, on-paper
qualifications from anyone seeking a programming job.

No offence to them,

and (b) have had to fork out through the nose for formal training and
qualifications.

Some therefore tend to be slightly resentful of younger people who have
done well for themselves through being self-taught, something which has
grown easier now that a lot of the people that learnt IT many moons ago
are now getting to be managers. (I reiterate - *no offence* to them - I
can see how this can be justified for the most part given the effort and
money they've had to put into their career development, but each method of
learning has its strengths.)

This tends to propogate the characteristic of the MVP

program of being an 'insiders club', thus adding even further weight to
the requirement to have been 'at it since the dawn of time'.

 

[Bonj]

Bonj - I don't know if that's true. I'm 32 and I'm one of the older folks
in my MVP peer group.

Yes, that's probably largely due to your peer group being mainly *.NET* MVPs
.....
Incidentally I'm curious as to why he chose to only make his rant at the
..NET groups where the problem he's banging on about is actually a lot
*better* than the unmanaged world - I'd love to have seen his rant if he'd
been given a project to do in VB6 and he didn't know it and had to try and
get some sense out of the VB6 MVPs!

 

[PMGuy]

Man, I'm nearly 37 and I didn't feel old until I read your post. WEG.

Why is so much bandwidth wasted replying to jokers like rhat anyway?

 

[Brian Henry]

you again? stop spamming and changeing your name, we are not stupid...

 

[Kevin Spencer]

I'm 49, so you can both start feeling young again. After all, I still do!

--
:-D,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

 

[Michael Pearson]

Something tells me someone didn't get selected as an MVP this year....