A
alex
W. Watson said:Well, you may. Unfortunately, there are many NGs that do the opposite.
*plonk*
W. Watson said:Well, you may. Unfortunately, there are many NGs that do the opposite.
That's a silly question. Of course it knows your current
position--it just chooses to modify your position when you exit
insert mode.
i and a are two of *many* ways to enter insert mode.
The existence of command mode allows plain old keystrokes to be
commands--it potentially makes commands easier to type.
In message <[email protected]>, Neil Cerutti wrote:
That's like saying, about a program that, when given "2 + 2", outputs "5",
that _of course_ it knows the correct answer is "4", it just chooses
to "modify" the answer before outputting it.
Why does it "choose" to modify your position when you exit insert mode? Does
the phrase "broken as designed" mean anything to you?
And the downside is that the largest single proportion of those commands end
up being variations on "enter insert mode". Because most of the keystrokes
you enter during an editing session are in fact text to be input into the
file, not commands to manipulate that text. So in a modal editor, having to
Lawrence said:That's like saying, about a program that, when given "2 + 2",
outputs "5", that _of course_ it knows the correct answer is "4",
it just chooses to "modify" the answer before outputting it.
Why does it "choose" to modify your position when you exit insert
mode? Does the phrase "broken as designed" mean anything to you?
Why do you need so many ways to enter insert mode?
And the downside is that the largest single proportion of those
commands end up being variations on "enter insert mode". Because
most of the keystrokes you enter during an editing session are in
fact text to be input into the file, not commands to manipulate
that text.
So in a modal editor, having to jump in and out of insert mode all
the time just adds to the number of keystrokes you have to type.
Does "this non-Python related twaddle is boring the shit out of me" meanBjoern said:No. Which laws say how transitions between modes have to be? Thus, I
know laws saying 2 and 2 is 4.
Does the phrase "everything I don't like is stupid" mean anything to
you? Honestly, if you don't like it, either propose improvement or
stop using it (and complaining about it). Your preference with user
interfaces is obviously different. (Personally, I prefer single
strokes to breaking my fingers with Esc-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
)
Does "this non-Python related twaddle is boring the shit out of me" mean
anything to you both?
Try to insert 1 character in the middle of a line. You'll end up at the
same position. Now press 'j' (one line down), then '.' (do it again).
I believe that's why.
Great when you have nicely formatted columns of code underneath each
other.
The cost of that power is a command/insert mode and a steep learning
curve.
For example, ever wondered why you on earth you need CTL-C and CTL-V to
copy/paste? Why not simply select with the mouse, then right-click to
paste?
Depends on what you are doing. When entering new code, yes. When
maintaining code, no (lots of small changes).
Lawrence D'Oliveiro said:That's another issue, that of ROI. Having learnt the vi/vim
keystrokes, what does that enable you to do? Use vi/vim, and that's
it.
Whereas I've found other situations where subsets of Emacs
keystrokes are recognized, such as anything that uses GNU readline
It's strange, but in nearly 30 years of writing code in dozens of different
languages, I've never felt the urge to line up my code in columns. Never.
(Apart from assembly language, which I suspect you don't want to hear
about.)
That's another issue, that of ROI. Having learnt the vi/vim keystrokes, what
does that enable you to do? Use vi/vim, and that's it. Whereas I've found
other situations where subsets of Emacs keystrokes are recognized, such as
anything that uses GNU readline (including the Python console--see, this IS
relevant to Python after all), and pico/nano. These are all extra goodies
that are to be found on the way up the Emacs learning curve.
Or better still, why not allow both?
Making lots of small changes is even worse--it means you're jumping into
insert mode for shorter times, more frequently.
And that's when you discover something else: that how you delete text in
vi/vim differs, depending on whether it's something you just inserted while
currently in insert mode, or whether it was there from before you last
entered insert mode: in the former case, you use backspace to delete, in
the latter case, you can't use backspace, you have to use "X". What does
backspace do when not in insert mode? It just moves you through the text.
What does the forward-delete key do? In both modes, it actually deletes
text!
Lawrence said:It's strange, but in nearly 30 years of writing code in dozens of
different languages, I've never felt the urge to line up my code
in columns. Never.
That's another issue, that of ROI. Having learnt the vi/vim
keystrokes, what does that enable you to do? Use vi/vim, and
that's it. Whereas I've found other situations where subsets of
Emacs keystrokes are recognized, such as anything that uses GNU
readline (including the Python console--see, this IS relevant to
Python after all)
Making lots of small changes is even worse--it means you're
jumping into insert mode for shorter times, more frequently.
And that's when you discover something else: that how you delete
text in vi/vim differs, depending on whether it's something you
just inserted while currently in insert mode, or whether it was
there from before you last entered insert mode [...]
At least with Emacs, text is text--it doesn't matter when it was
inserted, it still behaves the same way.
Off the top of my head, I can think of a few vim commands that
have come in handy. I can search through a webpage in Firefox
by using the same '/' search command that vim has. The
movement keys (h,j,k,l) are the same as in any paging program
I've ever used. Not to mention that I learned regexes by
learning 's/regex/replacement' first
That's my religion anyway ;-), but I thought this was a python
mailing list ;-)
Yup. A huge advantge of learning vi is how much it helps improve
your nethack experience. Ignorance was Emacs was an obstacle I
had to overcome in order to get into the Lisp world, though.
On 9/26/07 said:You definitely used the wrong languages
http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/The-Other-Kind-of-RPG.aspx
Vim has Python integration if you want to control it with Python
scripts. Cool! Of course, Vim needs such a capability more than
Emacs, which has the very cool elisp scripting language.
Bruno Desthuilliers said:Ben Finney a écrit :Both Emacs and Vim are highly customisable text editors. They are
configurable with complete programming languages specific to the
program, and both have a huge community of programmers writing
useful extensions.
FWIW, emacs has
[...]
- ECB (emacs-code-browser), that adds a file explorer and
functions/classes inspector
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