ANNOUNCE: TimingAnalyzer version beta 0.87


T

timinganalyzer

Hi All,

A new version of the TimingAnalyzer, beta 0.87, is now available.
The following improvements and changes are new since the last version.


1) Changed the user interface to be more windows like. Click to
select objects. Hold Ctrl key down and click to select multiple
objects. Click in empty area to deselect all the select objects.

2) Drag the mouse anytime draws a select rectangle to select objects.
Previously, you needed to hold down the alt and drag

3) Fixed saving images to selected directory in file chooser dialog.

4) Changed all DTT object references to PulseWidthLabel objects.

5) Fixed all commands that move edges do not move DigitalClocks edges
now.

6) Changed Ctrl Up key combination to Alt Up when moving delay,
constraint, and PulseWidthLabels up in the diagram. Ctrl Up is used by
the JTabbedPane so users can hit Ctrl up and left and right to select
a diagram in other tab panes.

7) Save as dialog does not display when just saving (Ctrl-S). When
exiting the application, the save as dialog displays for each file
that has been modified by not saved.

8) Fixed file needs to be saved when selecting or deselecting objects.

9) Standard Edition Features enabled until 9/13/08 for trail and
testing. All beta versions will have the SE features enabled until the
final release.

10) Working SE Features currently include savings images in other
formats such as eps, pdf, svg, png, and gif, and also the scripting
interface.


You can download and use it at:

www.timing-diagrams.com
 
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R

rickman

Hi All,

A new version of the TimingAnalyzer, beta 0.87, is now available.
The following improvements and changes are new since the last version.
....snip...

Could I suggest that you add a forum to your web site and announce
your product releases there? That is what most projects like yours
do. Announcing it in multiple newsgroups is really no different from
other spam.

How about you give it a rest? Besides, I think you are over
estimating the demand for your product. I have only seen a small
indication of any interest in this product. If it is any good and
there is a need, customers will find you by word of mouth.

Rick
 
T

timinganalyzer

...snip...

Could I suggest that you add a forum to your web site and announce
your product releases there? That is what most projects like yours
do. Announcing it in multiple newsgroups is really no different from
other spam.

How about you give it a rest? Besides, I think you are over
estimating the demand for your product. I have only seen a small
indication of any interest in this product. If it is any good and
there is a need, customers will find you by word of mouth.

Rick

Hello Rick,

I didn't think it would considered spam if it's related to the subject
of
the newsgroup but I guess you have a good point. I won't announce
updates
to the program on the newsgroups anymore.

You might be right about the interest level as well. Time will
tell.
There seems to more interest with ASIC and VLSI design engineers
needing ways
to document complex interface timing diagrams and generating test
vectors.
That was why I decided to develop the program in the first place.

-Dan











-Dan
 
C

CBFalconer

timinganalyzer said:
.... snip ...

I didn't think it would considered spam if it's related to the
subject of the newsgroup but I guess you have a good point. I
won't announce updates to the program on the newsgroups anymore.

You might be right about the interest level as well. Time will
tell. There seems to more interest with ASIC and VLSI design
engineers needing ways to document complex interface timing
diagrams and generating test vectors. That was why I decided to
develop the program in the first place.

I don't consider it spam. It is available, free, and pertinent.
Without this sort of announcement interested users will never know
it exists.
 
R

rickman

I don't consider it spam either. Instead of a complete accounting of new
features, Rickman might be happier with a brief announcement that alerts
the reader to new material on the website. Personally, I don't care.

Are you and CBF OK with *any* vendor of hardware, software, tools,
components, boards or materials related to embedded, FPGA, DSP or VHDL/
Verilog posting here to advertise their products? The fact that this
software offers a free version with limited features does not make it
unique. There are any number of software vendors that do the same
thing. Many component manufacturers offer free samples. Even makers
of tools, boards, systems and test equipment will let you use their
products for evaluation.

Is there something special about this vendor and his product?

Personally I feel that his posts are not on topic. Selling and
marketing is not the topic of any of these groups.


Rick
 
C

CBFalconer

rickman said:
Are you and CBF OK with *any* vendor of hardware, software, tools,
components, boards or materials related to embedded, FPGA, DSP or
VHDL/ Verilog posting here to advertise their products? The fact
that this software offers a free version with limited features
does not make it unique. There are any number of software vendors
that do the same thing. Many component manufacturers offer free
samples. Even makers of tools, boards, systems and test equipment
will let you use their products for evaluation.

Is there something special about this vendor and his product?

Personally I feel that his posts are not on topic. Selling and
marketing is not the topic of any of these groups.

As far as I can tell the source is available, and there is no
long-term commercial interest. This puts it in the same
classification as Linux. He is not selling - he is offering.
 
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J

John Devereux

CBFalconer said:
As far as I can tell the source is available,

But you are not allowed to look at it

<http://www.timing-diagrams.com/license.html>

"You may not modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the
TimingAnalyzer program."
and there is no long-term commercial interest. This puts it in the
same classification as Linux. He is not selling - he is offering.

...."You must buy a license to use TimingAnalyzer Standard
Edition(SE)"...

It appears to be a commercial program, free for personal,
non-commercial use only. So I agree with rickman.
 
R

Rich Webb

rickman wrote:

A salient difference is that the posts were not simply (or even mostly)
advertising but rather were part of a conversation about the features,
operation, and behaviors of a useful tool that was under development.

Boy, it sure would suck if the product development engineers from Xilinx
or Atmel or whatever would hang around here and do that, eh?

Other than soliciting and responding to community feedback?

Personally, I feel that the joker who keeps littering the groups with
"Spam" posts is more of a menace.
There is something special about this vendor, if not his product. He has
made something on his own that he hopes is useful, and has no budget to
make it known. He came to us initially for advice, which he heeded
despite the criticism that was unfortunately necessary. If nothing else,
I'm happy to give him a bye.

Indeed.
 
R

rickman

As far as I can tell the source is available, and there is no
long-term commercial interest. This puts it in the same
classification as Linux. He is not selling - he is offering.

Did you actually look at his web page? There is nothing "open" about
this program and the only "free" is the limited capability version
licensed only for "personal or academic use", not commercial.

http://www.timing-diagrams.com/license.html

In particular,

"You must buy a license to use TimingAnalyzer Standard Edition(SE)"

and

"You may not modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the
TimingAnalyzer program."


I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls. But this guy has been
cluttering up a number of newsgroups, Yahoo groups and who knows where
else with his frequent postings. I don't object to his making it
known that there is a new product on the market. I get tired of
seeing his, sometimes bi-weekly, announcements that a new version is
out there. If anyone is looking for a timing analyzer then he will
already be easy to find. If anyone wants to know the current status
of his program he has a web site.

I just think that a lot of people, here and elsewhere, don't so much
"think" about a topic like this, they justify what they "feel". How
would people "feel" if every vendor came here to advertise, announce
new products, new features or even just to solicit comments and
advice? I remember awhile back there were some job postings and it
was rather contentious whether that was considered acceptable. For
the most part people had no logical justification for wanting to allow
that sort of post. They just tried to rationalize their feelings, "if
you were out of work, you would welcome those posts" sort of
thing.

Well my feelings are that I get tired of seeing advertising in this
group and elsewhere. I moderate multiple Yahoo groups and have made a
real effort to exclude the spam. Don't you think these groups would
be better served with less spam?

Rick
 
C

CBFalconer

rickman said:
Did you actually look at his web page? There is nothing "open"
about this program and the only "free" is the limited capability
version licensed only for "personal or academic use", not
commercial.

No, I admit I didn't. I have limited interest in such a utility.
 
T

timinganalyzer

Did you actually look at his web page? There is nothing "open" about
this program and the only "free" is the limited capability version
licensed only for "personal or academic use", not commercial.

http://www.timing-diagrams.com/license.html

In particular,

"You must buy a license to use TimingAnalyzer Standard Edition(SE)"

and

"You may not modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the
TimingAnalyzer program."

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls. But this guy has been
cluttering up a number of newsgroups, Yahoo groups and who knows where
else with his frequent postings. I don't object to his making it
known that there is a new product on the market. I get tired of
seeing his, sometimes bi-weekly, announcements that a new version is
out there. If anyone is looking for a timing analyzer then he will
already be easy to find. If anyone wants to know the current status
of his program he has a web site.

I just think that a lot of people, here and elsewhere, don't so much
"think" about a topic like this, they justify what they "feel". How
would people "feel" if every vendor came here to advertise, announce
new products, new features or even just to solicit comments and
advice? I remember awhile back there were some job postings and it
was rather contentious whether that was considered acceptable. For
the most part people had no logical justification for wanting to allow
that sort of post. They just tried to rationalize their feelings, "if
you were out of work, you would welcome those posts" sort of
thing.

Well my feelings are that I get tired of seeing advertising in this
group and elsewhere. I moderate multiple Yahoo groups and have made a
real effort to exclude the spam. Don't you think these groups would
be better served with less spam?

Rick


Hello All,

I'm sorry to be the cause of this debate. Originally, my intentions
were to find some beta testers to help me test the program and at the
same time get some visibility to potential customers. Its hard to
find experience engineers to help. I have been getting feedback from
users of each beta version which has been helpful.

rickman, Yes, I have made the announcement on other groups that I
thought were relative to digital logic timing analysis and drawing
timings. I am not just blindly sendiing frequent postings to any
group that are not related.

But, I will follow any newsgroup guidelines there are and will not
clutter them will frequent announcements anymore if that is considered
spam or not good practice.

Regards,
Dan
 
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E

Eric Jacobsen

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls. But this guy has been
cluttering up a number of newsgroups, Yahoo groups and who knows where
else with his frequent postings. I don't object to his making it
known that there is a new product on the market. I get tired of
seeing his, sometimes bi-weekly, announcements that a new version is
out there. If anyone is looking for a timing analyzer then he will
already be easy to find. If anyone wants to know the current status
of his program he has a web site.

I just think that a lot of people, here and elsewhere, don't so much
"think" about a topic like this, they justify what they "feel". How
would people "feel" if every vendor came here to advertise, announce
new products, new features or even just to solicit comments and
advice? I remember awhile back there were some job postings and it
was rather contentious whether that was considered acceptable. For
the most part people had no logical justification for wanting to allow
that sort of post. They just tried to rationalize their feelings, "if
you were out of work, you would welcome those posts" sort of
thing.

Well my feelings are that I get tired of seeing advertising in this
group and elsewhere. I moderate multiple Yahoo groups and have made a
real effort to exclude the spam. Don't you think these groups would
be better served with less spam?

Rick

Spam is going to part of the internet for the foreseeable future, and
unmoderated newsgroups are always going to be subject to unwanted
intrusions. I suggest you learn to use killfiles and ignore
settings rather than harp on anybody who comes along that might have a
product relevant to the group, because that's not going to stop.
People can make their own decisions and clearly, as in this case, some
people do like getting the information.

For this particular case I think he's been exceptional in that he's
looking for (and getting, and responding to) feedback to make his
product better. Would that all vendors in relevant fields would do
this.

Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communications
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php
 
R

rickman

Spam is going to part of the internet for the foreseeable future, and
unmoderated newsgroups are always going to be subject to unwanted
intrusions. I suggest you learn to use killfiles and ignore
settings rather than harp on anybody who comes along that might have a
product relevant to the group, because that's not going to stop.
People can make their own decisions and clearly, as in this case, some
people do like getting the information.

For this particular case I think he's been exceptional in that he's
looking for (and getting, and responding to) feedback to make his
product better. Would that all vendors in relevant fields would do
this.

If I understand your post correctly, you are making two points. The
first is that since it is impossible to stop all spam, that we should
not try to stop *any* spam posts, is that correct? That is, when
otherwise reputable companies use spam to promote their products, we
should just shrug our shoulders and consider this part of the Internet
landscape?

The second point I think you are making is that you have a personal
feeling that this particular spammer should be allowed because you
don't find his posts offensive. Is that correct?

So just to be clear on this, you don't have a problem with all
embedded related vendors coming to these newsgroups and posting
advertising, marketing, update announcements or asking for "opinions"
on their latest products. Is that right?

Rick
 
C

CBFalconer

timinganalyzer said:
.... snip ...

I'm sorry to be the cause of this debate. Originally, my
intentions were to find some beta testers to help me test the
program and at the same time get some visibility to potential
customers. Its hard to find experience engineers to help. I
have been getting feedback from users of each beta version
which has been helpful.

Don't get too excited about it. There is always at least one
person who considers almost every announcement commercial spam.
The real spammers know what they are.
 
K

kennheinrich

rickman wrote:

...


Asking opinions can be a marketing ploy. Political and public-interest
organizations often include a questionnaire with low-key appeals for a
donation. Dan is different. He has actually acted on the suggestions he
got, to the point that he has produced new (and improved) versions that
incorporate most of them. In fact, those new versions account for the
profusion of announcements. Yhe longer this thread grows, the more
inclined I become to cheer him on.

Jerry

Anyone who (1) develops a tool that is useful, at least in principal,
to the majority of people doing digital design, (2) listens to and
applies feedback derived from these postings, and (3) offers a free
version (limited or not), would seem to be entirely justified in
posting to at least those few groups I've seen these posts in
(comp.lang.vhdl in particular).

In fact, I find a number of arguably more topical, yet grossly stupid,
posts to be much more annoying than these. I have in mind those posts
that (to paraphrase) say "I need a VHDL module for an advanced
multiresolution wavelet homotopy-modulated Fourier domain analyser. I
forget how to use Google. I can also barely understand how to
multiply single digit integers. Please send me the source code and
hold my hand as I make an ass of myself."

Just my two cents.

- Kenn
 
E

Eric Jacobsen

If I understand your post correctly, you are making two points. The
first is that since it is impossible to stop all spam, that we should
not try to stop *any* spam posts, is that correct? That is, when
otherwise reputable companies use spam to promote their products, we
should just shrug our shoulders and consider this part of the Internet
landscape?

I didn't say that, no. You've read a lot into my statements that's
not there. Feel free to re-read.
The second point I think you are making is that you have a personal
feeling that this particular spammer should be allowed because you
don't find his posts offensive. Is that correct?

I wouldn't find ANY posts offensive that led to product improvement
for tools useful to the newsgroup. How would that be off-topic? Feel
free to re-read the last paragraph in my previous post.
So just to be clear on this, you don't have a problem with all
embedded related vendors coming to these newsgroups and posting
advertising, marketing, update announcements or asking for "opinions"
on their latest products. Is that right?

Rick

That's not what I said. Again, feel free to re-read the post to
which you're responding. Especially useful to you might be the part
about ignoring or killfiling sources that you personally don't want to
have to deal with.

Usenet is not, and has never been, a utopia of electronic discourse.
The reality is that there will be objectionable and useless posts
regardless of what anyone does. There also won't always be agreement
on whether certain posts are useful or objectionable, and this case is
a pretty good example of that, evidently.

There's off topic spam (e.g., clothing sales ads in technical groups),
there are trolls, and there are worthwhile contributions, and there's
everything in between. I think what you're seeing is that there are
folks who find the case in point to be in the on-topic and worthwhile
category. Why should that be an issue?


Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communications
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php
 
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R

rickman

John Devereux wrote:

...




Years ago, I bought ($10) a very nice interactive star map program
called SkyGlobe for DOS. A few years later, I got a free upgrade for
Windows. I still use it. This stuff is shareware, and I don't think of
it as commercial. I put TimingAnalyzer in the same category. I hope it
hets to be as polished.

You paid for something, but it is "not commercial". If you bought it
for DOS, I would guess that inflation makes it about equivalent to $20
to $30 now. Jerry, you have a very unique definition of
"commercial".

Rick
 
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R

rickman

Hello All,

I'm sorry to be the cause of this debate. Originally, my intentions
were to find some beta testers to help me test the program and at the
same time get some visibility to potential customers. Its hard to
find experience engineers to help. I have been getting feedback from
users of each beta version which has been helpful.

rickman, Yes, I have made the announcement on other groups that I
thought were relative to digital logic timing analysis and drawing
timings. I am not just blindly sendiing frequent postings to any
group that are not related.

But, I will follow any newsgroup guidelines there are and will not
clutter them will frequent announcements anymore if that is considered
spam or not good practice.

Regards,
Dan

Dan,

Please don't worry about it. Although I am saying that I think the
posts are not appropriate for these groups (I can't say about the ones
I don't frequent), I'm certainly not saying you are a bad person or
that your product is bad. I'm really just trying to make a point.
This happened a while back when someone posted an advert about a job
and a long controversy erupted when someone called is spam.

I only posted about it because I have seen your posts frequently in
time and see them in some three or four groups that I read. But you
have said that you won't continue doing that and I am happy with that
response. I wish you good luck with your program and when I have more
time I may take another look at it.

At this point I just think that some people are taking absurd stances
and I am trying to pin them down so they can see what they are really
saying. Or maybe I will see that I am not making sense. Either way,
this discussion is not really about you any more. So don't sweat
it!

Rick
 

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