Joshua Cranmer wrote:
Oops. Joshua Cranmer was not supposed to write anything at all. I have
made it clear to him that I have no interest in any of his so-called
"advice"; regardless of its content, its method of delivery renders it
completely unpalatable.
That he has posted again despite knowing that doing so cannot serve his
stated intent of giving me advice, it follows that he was lying and that
his true intent is merely to smear me in public.
This is completely unacceptable behavior, not to mention that it
flagrantly violates the newsgroup's charter, and therefore his internet
service provider will shortly be notified of his behavior, which likely
violates their Terms of Service.
This seems to be the core of the conundrum then.
Indeed it does.
(Joshua had nothing else worthwhile to say here.)
The fact that you *refused* to acknowledge that the superclass could
be a source of documentation
That is not a "fact" at all. It is a bald-faced lie. (I'd tell you to
stop lying about me OR ELSE, but I expect you will soon get a message
from your internet provider telling you the same thing, so why waste the
bandwidth?)
I never claimed that a superclass could not be a source of documentation
about a subclass. I questioned two things:
1. Less importantly, whether it was reasonable for you to expect me to
ALWAYS search the documentation exhaustively all the way up the class
hierarchy, including every implemented interface (so, up a branching
tree!), even in cases where it looked like code reuse rather than an
"is-a" relationship.
2. More importantly, whether your expectations have any relevance here
whatsoever, let alone you have any kind of authority to DEMAND that
EVERYONE ELSE in the world live up to your expectations OR ELSE, as you
have implicitly done by explicitly attacking and character-assassinating
everyone that you suspect of NOT meeting your expectations.
Yes, provided you have the libraries to define JButton. AWT and Swing
mix seamlessly, modulo the different design styles.
I find that surprising. And given your recent propensity for telling
bald-faced lies about me, and your pal Arne's dishonest manipulation of
the quoted material in another post to make it look like I'd said
something that I hadn't, I also don't trust you or any of the others
that act very much like you. So I hope you won't mind if I test that for
myself before believing it.
It stopped being about Java when you stopped talking about Java.
Which happened because MY JAVA PROBLEM GOT SOLVED. That should have
meant THE END OF THIS THREAD, since it OBVIOUSLY cannot serve any
further on-charter purpose past that point!
The ONLY reason that you and your pals have continued this thread has
been because I stood up to you, you don't like that, and so you intend
to make an example out of me by blasting me repeatedly in public.
The problem is, not only is such behavior childish and extremely rude,
it is also a serious violation of this newsgroup's charter and a serious
disruption of this newsgroup. As such, it is probably also a violation
of your internet provider's terms of service.
Fortunately, this means that you will, in all likelihood, soon be forced
to stop pursuing this nasty and small-minded vendetta of yours.
This is not a pecking order. It is not a hierarchy. You are not Chief
Big-um and you do not get to just beat your chest and viciously attack
people and thereby make everyone kneel before you and suck up to you.
Some of the mature adults that visit this newsgroup will have none of
that sort of nonsense and will not take any of your CRAP, and will make
no bones about it either; they will stand right up and tell you to your
face that you are an asshole. Some people have done so in the past.
Others will do so in the future. And I am doing so now.
All your threats, bluster, and nastiness will not make such people go
away or cow them into submission, either.
We are not afraid of you!
We are not afraid to tell you to your face that you have the manners of
someone raised by wolves!
And we are not afraid to wait until you step over the line and then
aggressively seek to get your internet access revoked, or at least cause
you to receive a slap on the wrist from your provider along with a stern
warning not to let them catch you bullying people, flaming, or otherwise
violating newsgroup charters again.
Sorry -- you bit off more than you could chew. You lose. Perhaps if you
were here to actually help people, rather than to play the arrogant and
churlish know-it-all and thereby inflate your already-hypertrophied ego,
then you wouldn't be in this fix. But it may be too late.
A little trick for future reference: cut out any part that you think
goes too off-topic and don't mention that you've dropped it. That
portion will die off very quickly.
Everything posted to this thread since my original question was answered
has been off-topic.
Also, if I cut out your personal attacks and outright lies about me and
don't say anything about them, you will get your way and people will
read your attacks without hearing the other side of the story, and that
just won't do at all!
(Joshua had nothing worthwhile to say in response to this.)
It is much easier to assume that someone is a neophyte when no evidence
has been given to the contrary than the other way around
Yes, it is, but it is also wrong, not to mention exceedingly rude.
Likewise, we assume that people haven't bothered to go
look something up in the correct places unless they explain that they
have.
This is another wrong-headed assumption that results in rudeness.
Furthermore, you are being presumptive and arrogant again here when you
incorrectly use the word "we" when describing the execrable way in which
YOU happen to behave. WE do not ALL behave like you do! Although,
unfortunately, three or four people do.
Questions are very frequently answerable by one of the first 10
results on Google.
What the hell does Google have to do with any of this? This discussion
had been about repainting Swing components, and then about the javadocs
for Swing components, and then about how horrible a person zerg
supposedly is. Google hadn't entered into it.
Google would not have been of much use anyway. Understanding what
results are most relevant for a "how do I do X" type of question is
AI-complete the last time I'd checked.
The only queries that occur to me are variations on the theme of
"JComponent repaint" and the major results for them are just references
to the same Sun docs and tutorials I'd been using anyway.
I can't recall a time where I snipped someone's response and then
complained that the response was worthless
I can recall plenty of times when you have been rude and condescending
to me, and a Google search turns up occasions when you have been rude
and condescending to a shockingly large number of other people. This has
often included snipping entire highly-relevant passages from what they
wrote and ignoring them utterly, without even having the courtesy to
tell them you were ignoring them.
My snipping some completely irrelevant and pointless dribble and having
the courtesy to mention that I trimmed something is not even close to
being in the same league of rudeness. Nor have I done so without
provocation, right out of the starting gate as it were, the way you have
on multiple occasions.
The first time I pointed out that in the real world people sometimes
inherit for code reuse (poor practise though that is) you completely
ignored that bit and continued on as if I hadn't raised a valid
objection to a point you'd tried to raise in support of your theory that
I'm a horrible person.
(Joshua continues on to accuse me outright of lying, and to blather some
other pointless stuff.)
No, as I have proven earlier, it is you who has lied, about your
motives. (See the top of this post for the evidence against your having
been truthful about your motives.)
(Joshua had nothing worthwhile to say in response to this.)
"JComponent doesn't override all of Component's methods" -> "It can't
because it's not feasible". If that's not a rebuttal, what is it?
It's a rebuttal of something that I never claimed should be the case. I
suggested that methods IN OVERLOADED GROUPS, like the repaints, IN VERY
BUSY CLASSES, like JComponent, should appear together in the alphabetic
listing in the docs, and that barring changes to how the docs are
generated the only apparent way to do so was to override any of THOSE
PARTICULAR METHODS that were in a superclass with, if no
subclass-specific new functionality, just a call to "super" so that the
present documentation generator includes them there.
That's a far cry from suggesting that ALL methods in ALL classes should
be overridden in ALL subclasses. That is a gross caricature of my
position, and your dishonest form of arguing in trying to "prove" that
I'm a moron is called a "straw man argument".
If you can't prove that I'm a moron without resorting to dishonest
tactics, consider the possibility that it may have something to do with
the fact that I AM NOT, ACTUALLY, A MORON.
If, mind you, you're just trying to "prove" that I'm a moron to the
general public as a means of attacking me, rather than because you
genuinely believe it, then you are being even more dishonest, not to
mention acting in bad faith, and you deserve whatever nasty fate awaits you!
Actually, I'm technically not *over* the age of 18.
Well, THAT explains a great deal. The chest-beating instinct is at its
strongest at your age, and maturity is generally still lacking, to boot.
I can't help you much with those things. I can do this, though: I can
reassure you that you are refreshingly normal. Aside from your mother's
complete failure to teach you even the most rudimentary manners! THAT
sure isn't normal, at least not where I live.
Which should go to show that you shouldn't make any assumptions.
I didn't make any assumptions about your age, you liar. I said it was
rude for you to be condescending to other people when THEY were over the
age of 18. That doesn't even assume that all of the OTHER PEOPLE here
are over 18; it merely indicates that you are being rude when you treat
over-18s like children here, and that you are being rude when you treat
random people whose age you don't know and who therefore are PROBABLY
over 18 like children here.
In other words, what drew ire was that he stood up for himself when
people were rude to him and cast aspersions about him in public. Well,
good for him, even if he took it to extremes.
This is what the threads were like:
*Twisted makes a point
Person A: No, I don't think that's valid because...
Twisted: [Snip insult from Person A]
Did you expect that telling Twisted that he (or the things that he
wrote) wasn't valid would actually ENDEAR you to him? Big mistake. Most
people will not like that sort of treatment, although for whatever
reason relatively few will complain out loud.
No one was rude at the beginning. People only got rude when this had
gone for some time.
You don't consider telling Twisted that he (or the things that he wrote)
wasn't valid to be rude?
I consider any public insinuation to the effect that somebody is stupid,
ignorant, missing something important, or etc. to be rude in the
extreme. If you hold a negative opinion of someone you should generally
keep it to yourself. If you think that what someone says isn't valid,
you can politely disagree by saying what YOU think, or you can just let
it pass. However, telling them "no, that's not valid" will only get
their backs up!
I'm surprised that you have so much difficulty understanding this. It is
strange that people seem to get their backs up at the mere asking of a
question here. It is NOT strange that people get their backs up when
directly and bluntly contradicted in public and treated like a school
child being corrected, humiliatingly, in front of the entire class.
Either be more diplomatic or keep your mouth shut. Unless, perhaps, you
LIKE getting embroiled in debates like this one!
Actually *read* what happened.
And there you go being rude again!
First of all, I skimmed several of the posts. I don't have time to
actually READ them, or even skim more than a fraction; Google finds a
truly stupendous number of them.
Second of all, you are not in any position to bark orders at me.
"Actually *read* foo" is exceptionally nasty and rude and I will not
tolerate anything of the sort from anyone, no matter WHAT "tier" he
thinks he's on!
Don't talk to me about what happened with this one person until
Don't you ever bark an order at me like this again!
(Another taste of your own medicine. If you don't like it, stop
attacking me in public!)
see what happened for yourself, instead of assuming what happened.
I assumed nothing. I read what happened, and in several of the threads
it started very similarly to this -- Twisted said something (either
asked a question, or actually answered someone else's, something I don't
yet feel all that qualified to do, except in the politeness area where
I'm clearly more qualified than YOU) and someone jumped down his throat
and publicly called him names, or at least flatly rejected paragraphs of
what he'd written in a very undiplomatic manner. Commonly, also, as here
whoever attacked Twisted was arrogantly certain that if his opinion and
Twisted's differed, then Twisted's opinion was wrong, and moreover
Twisted was somehow IN the wrong just for daring to post it.
Where things differed was in Twisted's response to this; he would not
only call them (sometimes you) on their rudeness and get impatient when
instead of backing down they kept browbeating him, but he would also
start getting very snippy and insulting himself.
I am taking care not to do so, but I must warn you that my patience with
responding calmly and reasonably swear-word-free to being repeatedly
publicly attacked is beginning to wear thing. You are getting tiresome,
as is Arne. I suggest that you stop now and we agree to disagree on
various things, before one of us seriously loses his cool.
Although given your dishonest behavior I suspect that you have no
intention of acting in good faith and only wish to damage me now out of
what's apparently become a personal vendetta on your part. In which case
it will have to be your internet provider that puts a stop to this, by
putting a stop to your rampage.
I will clip whatever I damn well please and I will disobey your barked
orders whenever I see fit. You have still got to learn that you are not
my boss or in any position of authority here whatsoever. You are acting
like some sort of wanna-be net.kop. Just listen to yourself! Do this,
don't do that, "we" expect everyone to do X and not to do Y!
All I expect, request, or when I find it necessary demand, by way of
contrast, is that people be civil to me (and, preferably, to each other
more generally) and not pretend to be Grand Poobahs.
I made the statement originally, you misinterpreted it.
No. I did not do anything of the sort, you liar, and I will thank you to
stop telling vicious lies about me in public!
You do not have the right to be impolite to me or to anyone else. You
are nobody! Got that? Nobody! You are just some guy! You aren't even old
enough to drink! Where the **** (there, I said it now) do you get off
acting like you're some sort of stern-father type with some kind of
authority when all you are is A GODDAMN TEENAGER WITH TOO MUCH GODDAMN
TESTOSTERONE AND NOT ENOUGH EDUCATION IN MANNERS!
If you believe that people should respect their elders, then I have news
for you: I am your elder! I am, in fact, over twice your age. So if you
hold any such belief, you had damned well better start apologizing; and
if not, you had damned well better stop acting like you're some sort of
father-figure here with a special dispensation to be stern and outright
rude when someone dares to defy you.
If you neither apologize NOR stop behaving like you own this place, you
will be found guilty of hypocrisy beyond any reasonable doubt.
And you made no indication that you did.
So instead of either asking, or not bothering your tiny little head
about it, you made the most uncharitable assumption possible, viciously
attacked me for my supposed error, and then did not even have the good
graces to be contrite when it was pointed out that you'd guessed wrong?
Go away and leave me alone. You have NOTHING worthwhile to contribute
and you have shown a complete inability a) to treat others as your
equals, b) to be well-mannered in public, c) to apologize or admit to
error, AND d) to avoid making things personal when someone disagrees
with you.
You are not mature enough to post here. Go away.
I also just realized that
Andrew and Lew have both been the victims of a NewsMaestro spammer, but
I'll assume that you already accounted for that (they became such for
telling said spammer that c.l.j.p was not the place to advertise his
product).
I rather suspect something else. My theory is that whoever is hacking
their posts (and nobody has yet proven that whoever it is is called
"NewsMaestro" that I've seen, though perhaps they have where I have NOT
seen it) has another motive (or perhaps both motives apply).
I discerned, weeks ago, a pattern to the victims, and that's that they
fit a certain profile. That profile involved being arrogant so-and-sos
that were casually and gratuitously rude to newcomers and occasionally
to other people. This naturally suggested a theory as to motive.
On the basis of that theory as to motive, I predicted that Arne's
attitude would land him on the same shit-list either next or at least
quite soon.
That has now come to pass more or less right on schedule.
This boosts the credence of my theory substantially, I would say.
I would now suggest that you watch your back -- not a threat, just a
warning. I warned Arne similarly, and he didn't listen. Looks like he's
now paying the price. You fit the victim profile to a T, and it is very
plausible, particularly in light of Arne's fate, that you're next.
(Joshua had nothing worthwhile to say in response to this.)
I am not in a position of public trust nor am I a celebrity. Therefore
it is wrong, nevermind rude, to offer publicly a negative opinion of me,
and it is an outright violation of tort law to make factually-false
unpleasant claims about me, and in particular to falsely accuse me of
wrongdoing. Since I am not a public figure, it is sufficient for you to
be violating defamation law for you to merely make an unproven,
unpleasant assertion about me as if it were fact and not mere opinion.
It is merely extremely rude and morally wrong in the case that it is
clear that it IS mere opinion.
Regardless, I do not take kindly to being treated in such a manner. So
if you really MUST gossip about someone, gossip about Lindsay Lohan. IN
SOME OTHER NEWSGROUP WHERE IT IS ON-CHARTER TO DO SO. Got it?
(Joshua had nothing worthwhile to say in response to this.)
Never have I called you rude or condescending.
No, instead you have insinuated publicly that I have sub-normal
intelligence and various other nastiness.
Never have I shouted at you.
Your barked orders above, e.g. "Read this!", "Don't talk to me until
X!", and so forth notwithstanding.
The worst thing that I have said
implicitly is "lazy," which is quite frankly a much better attribute
than many of the things you have called me in this thread.
But I am not lazy and you ARE arrogant and rude, so yours was still the
worse act. You used a mild insult that was also a lie; I used an
arguably-stronger insult that happens to be true.
It has been my experience that this is generally not the case.
That you believe so speaks volumes about you.
Go away.
I have waded deep into threads with loads of abuse hurled at me all with
the simple goal of passing on a nugget of information.
Unfortunately, not all of your "nuggets of information" are neutral
statements regarding Java. Some of them are hostile statements about
people, and lots of THOSE are undeserved.
I try to follow the primary tenant of my religion, "Do onto others as
you would have them do unto you."
I would submit that you should try harder.
A lot harder.
You certainly have not treated ME as I would have preferred to be
treated. Particularly not by butting into a thread where the original
question had already been answered with the apparent sole purpose of
slinging mud, in public, at one of that thread's participants.
If you read earlier history, you'll notice that I
have actually stood up for JSH, in the midst of a whirlwind of abuse, to
the disbelief of others (you'll have to look in sci.math as well, as
that's where his biggest torturers are).
Token acts of tolerance against a general backdrop of hostility mean
nothing.
You must actually treat ALL people with that degree of tolerance, avoid
unprovoked namecalling (including by implication), and certainly avoid
outright dishonesty before you can be considered to be truly tolerant.
So yes, just ignore a person.
Unfortunately, you and your friends are making that rather difficult for
me to do, much as I'd love to, because you continue to badmouth me in
public, and each time one of you does that I have to reply to correct
the mistaken impressions people might have of me after reading your
attacks. I have to continue to tell my side of the story, or else it
will not get heard and people may form the mistaken impression that I've
conceded your claims, including your unpleasant personal attacks.
If you can suggest a better way of rebutting all of your attacks and
those of your "friends in rudeness", and along with that a way to
quickly achieve a state of infinite patience so that I can wade through
eight or nine abusive nuggets of shit like Arne's in a row without
eventually getting churlish back at him, then I'm all ears.
I learned long ago that trying to purposefully direct public opinion
of myself was a fruitless task.
No, now you try to purposefully direct public opinion of ME instead.
Hardly a worthy objective.
Fortunately, what I am doing is merely trying to correct lies told about
me and tell my side of the story, leaving it to mature and sensible
adults to make up their own damn minds but letting them have the facts
and not just your side's propaganda and myths.
That is likely to be a far more fruitful task than trying to direct
public opinion of anyone by fiat.
And you can take THAT to the bank!
You may think I'm some brutal bully secretly attempting to become the
next Pol Pot
That's a laugh. You're more like the scrawny kid with glasses that was
always getting beat up, always smaller and less strong than his
attackers, and one day got a modem for his birthday and now gets his
rocks off acting like a tough muthafucka on the Internet, pestering and
browbeating anyone that rubs him the wrong way and reveling in nobody
being bigger and tougher than he is.
At least until he gets a nasty surprise in the form of a complaint from
his internet provider about his conduct, and then realizes that though
he may no longer be outgunned and now can actually play the bully
himself, there is still a hall monitor out there, and still some
teachers, and still a detention slip with his name on it.
Oops.
I don't think you are a brutal bully. I think you're pathetic.
Besides, I don't feel one can really judge a person until one actually
gets the intimacy equivalent to sitting down and having a debate over
coffee or lunch.
This is a remarkable sign of psychological incoherency within you. You
say this, yet you presume to judge me (and of course find me wanting) on
the basis of a handful of Usenet posts?
