C++ and Qt now making business news

[seasoned_geek]

Why do you believe Qt's implementation of the observer pattern, which they
refer as "signals and slots", is "a major factor in portability"?

Spend 20 years in IT working with all of these products claiming to be
"cross platform".

Go back to the early days of C++ cross platform libraries (or even
later days). The ones which did not have signals and slots. Take a
damned good look at how the compiler and the language specification
were abused with "friends" and preprocessor macros. Signals and Slots
was an intervention by the hand of God. If you don't believe this you
either have zero experience in IT or have never worked in the cross
platform world.

This is simply wrong.  To start off, by "platform-independent", in this
context, it can only mean a program that may be successfully compiled for
more than one platform, which hardly means that there is any independence..

This is simply correct. You can and I have compiled a single set of
source full business application which ran on Windows 98, Windows XP,
Windows Vista, Windows 7, 32-bit OpenSuSE, 64-bit OpenSuSE, 32-bit
Ubuntu, 64-bit Ubuntu, and Mac. Not just some tiny little example but
a full ERP product containing customer maintenance, order entry,
invoicing, and inventory management to identify some of its portions.
The type of application most businesses have to have.

and Qt simply does not cover every aspect of computing.

I don't mean to offend, but that statement makes it sound like you've
never worked a day in your life. You certainly have never supported
production applications.

What SPECIFIC business functionality does Qt not provide? It has the
GUI, it has report creation, it has universal file handling, it has
classes to access relational databases and classes to interface via
IP. If you are developing in an MQ Series type of environment you
would need to call the IBM provided MQCONNECT MQOPEN MQGET MQPUT
MQCOMMIT MQCLOSE MQDISCONNECT, but MQ is available on every business
platform and not all businesses are currently utilizing message
delivery. Many are using raw IP and socket services to deal with
Internet communications.

And to claim that Java has somehow more portability issues than C++ software
relying on Qt, you surely don't know what Java is, nor do you know what
developing software with C++ using Qt.

Java has OCEANS of portability issues. I have written 3 books on Java
and more JNI code than I care to remember trying to work around the
pathetic excuse for the Java specification. You need to try running
Java on something other than a PC, then you will realize what a train
wreck that specification really is. Try running Java on an IBM
mainframe, or an OpenVMS midrange, or a Tandem computer. Good (^)(&*)
(*ing luck being able to do anything useful with it. Try getting the
same non-trivial Java applet to run on FireFox, Opera, Konqueror,
Arora, and Chrome. If you do magically get it to run on 32-bit
systems you will definitely be shot down by the 64-bit versions. Not
to mention each and every one of those browsers have different default
security settings so even if there is no syntax error what-so-ever,
the applet couldn't run on a bet. Oh you are soooooo correct, Java
has no portability issues what-so-ever....<cough><cough><hack><hack>
I'm even going to leave off getting it to run on a Windows machine
which, since the lawsuits, doesn't install Java by default, at least
many flavors don't.

It appears you are trying to pull the wool over this newsgroup's eyes, and
the way you are trying to achieve that is based on the idea that everyone
here is nieve, gullible and never used C++, Qt or Java at all.  I don'tknow
if you are clueless or a marketing shill, but either way your shoving a
heavy load of nonsense.

It appears you haven't ever had a real job in IT, or you wouldn't make
such uneducated statements.

Hopefully you will know more about programming in general once you
attend college.

 

[gwowen]

For many decades my country, the US, had
fairly honest leaders but not any longer.

Indeed. How we long for the good old days of Andrew Johnson, Tammany
Hall, Dixiecrats, The Confederate States of America, James Blaine,
Joseph McCarthy, Teapot Dome, Spiro Agnew & Richard Nixon, and the
attempted genocide of the indigenous people.

 

[Rui Maciel]

Spend 20 years in IT working with all of these products claiming to be
"cross platform".

Go back to the early days of C++ cross platform libraries (or even
later days). The ones which did not have signals and slots. Take a
damned good look at how the compiler and the language specification
were abused with "friends" and preprocessor macros. Signals and Slots
was an intervention by the hand of God. If you don't believe this you
either have zero experience in IT or have never worked in the cross
platform world.

So, your claim that the observer pattern is "a major factor in portability"
is based on nothing more than a vague assertion that some APIs employed
stuff such as preprocessor macros. Is that right?

I don't mean to offend, but that statement makes it sound like you've
never worked a day in your life. You certainly have never supported
production applications.

Are you serious? Do you actually believe that the number of modules
included in Qt will vary depending on anyone's CV?

What SPECIFIC business functionality does Qt not provide?

Just from the top of my head, support for sparse matrices, both for basic
algebra and solvers for systems of linear equations and eigen problems. In
fact, does Qt offer any component that comes even close to provide anything
remotely close to BLAS?

But hey, you can try to ignore that by going on the "no true scottsman"
path. Yet, if you do that, we can simply cut to the chase and claim that C
is the mostest and bestest portable platform ever devised by humanity due to
the ability to compile and run hello world programs in a multitude of
platforms.

Java has OCEANS of portability issues. I have written 3 books on Java
and more JNI code than I care to remember trying to work around the
pathetic excuse for the Java specification. You need to try running
Java on something other than a PC, then you will realize what a train
wreck that specification really is. Try running Java on an IBM
mainframe, or an OpenVMS midrange, or a Tandem computer. Good (^)(&*)
(*ing luck being able to do anything useful with it. Try getting the
same non-trivial Java applet to run on FireFox, Opera, Konqueror,
Arora, and Chrome. If you do magically get it to run on 32-bit
systems you will definitely be shot down by the 64-bit versions. Not
to mention each and every one of those browsers have different default
security settings so even if there is no syntax error what-so-ever,
the applet couldn't run on a bet. Oh you are soooooo correct, Java
has no portability issues what-so-ever....<cough><cough><hack><hack>
I'm even going to leave off getting it to run on a Windows machine
which, since the lawsuits, doesn't install Java by default, at least
many flavors don't.

Have you ever tried to get software based on Qt to run on those platforms?
How did that worked out? Oh, I see.

But carry on throwing pathetic personal attacks if you believe they will
make a particular tool come close to the completely unrealistic sales
pitches you keep throwing.


Rui Maciel

 

[Quint Rankid]

As a side note,

Oh. Side notes. Goody. I want to write a side note too.

many people including me,

Is that a majority then?

regard that kind of high volume trading unethical,

But done in the small it's ok?

where you can win 8 millions in a microsecond

Just eight million? That doesn't sound like he's doing a good job.
Should be more. What if it took longer than a microsecond. Suppose
it was an entire day? Ok then?

by making 10000 people starving because they can't afford the wheat
anymore.

They can't afford the wheat anymore anyway. I suspect that even
before they're done with the PIIGS the Germans will run out of a)
money b) patience. Maybe they'll remind the Greeks of that story by
Aesop about The Ant and the Grasshopper. Or was that The Frog and the
Scorpion? Oh well, never mind. Doesn't really make much of a
difference.

Maybe China will give you the money. Go ahead. Ask them.

In Europe we discuss to counteract this way of

In Europe they've been opposed to free markets ever since, well, ever.
Maybe a free market is inconsistent with philosophies that assert that
some people are better than others. Maybe it's because "many" believe
that things have an intrinsic value that can be set by government
fiat. Maybe there's some other reason. It seems to have some awful
consequences no matter which side you're on. Just ask Anastasia.

gambling,

Yes. Those who can't make money that way and at the same time provide
a free service of market signals, don't like it very much. And truly,
it is a lot of trouble to take responsibility for one's own economic
condition when some government is eager to promise to give you you
what you'll have to produce on your own anyway.

The idea of a person owning their own labor and being able to
voluntarily make transactions with other people is really horrible
isn't it? You ought to think about burning the books that say
otherwise.

e.g. with a transaction tax.

EG? Hmmm... I wonder what the other ways to deal with this are.
Riot? Anarchy? Communism? Socialism? Wasn't the last century
painful enough?

Rinse. Wash. Repeat?

Here endeth my "side note".

 

[88888 Dihedral]

Quint Rankidæ–¼ 2012å¹´2月21日星期二UTC+8上åˆ9時26分01秒寫é“：

Oh. Side notes. Goody. I want to write a side note too.


Is that a majority then?


But done in the small it's ok?



Just eight million? That doesn't sound like he's doing a good job.
Should be more. What if it took longer than a microsecond. Suppose
it was an entire day? Ok then?


They can't afford the wheat anymore anyway. I suspect that even
before they're done with the PIIGS the Germans will run out of a)
money b) patience. Maybe they'll remind the Greeks of that story by
Aesop about The Ant and the Grasshopper. Or was that The Frog and the
Scorpion? Oh well, never mind. Doesn't really make much of a
difference.

Maybe China will give you the money. Go ahead. Ask them.

I believe that captalism is suitable for the north America now.
It is not the same other continents.

In Europe they've been opposed to free markets ever since, well, ever.
Maybe a free market is inconsistent with philosophies that assert that
some people are better than others. Maybe it's because "many" believe
that things have an intrinsic value that can be set by government
fiat. Maybe there's some other reason. It seems to have some awful
consequences no matter which side you're on. Just ask Anastasia.

Europe is not self-sufficient in producing food or fuels.

Yes. Those who can't make money that way and at the same time provide
a free service of market signals, don't like it very much. And truly,
it is a lot of trouble to take responsibility for one's own economic
condition when some government is eager to promise to give you you
what you'll have to produce on your own anyway.

The idea of a person owning their own labor and being able to
voluntarily make transactions with other people is really horrible
isn't it? You ought to think about burning the books that say
otherwise.


EG? Hmmm... I wonder what the other ways to deal with this are.
Riot? Anarchy? Communism? Socialism? Wasn't the last century
painful enough?

Rinse. Wash. Repeat?

Here endeth my "side note".

If the supply side is not solved, then look at the revolutions in north
Africa recently. The question is who can supply the shortages will step in the region in the upper hand in the gambling, either food or labor of products.

 

[Rui Maciel]

Quint Rankid wrote:

In Europe they've been opposed to free markets ever since, well, ever.
Maybe a free market is inconsistent with philosophies that assert that
some people are better than others. Maybe it's because "many" believe
that things have an intrinsic value that can be set by government
fiat. Maybe there's some other reason. It seems to have some awful
consequences no matter which side you're on. Just ask Anastasia.

You are either making stuff as you go along or simply trolling.

<snip/>


Rui Maciel

 

[seasoned_geek]

Indeed.  How we long for the good old days of Andrew Johnson, Tammany
Hall, Dixiecrats, The Confederate States of America, James Blaine,
Joseph McCarthy, Teapot Dome, Spiro Agnew & Richard Nixon, and the
attempted genocide of the indigenous people.

LOL

Hey hey LBJ how many kids did you kill today?

Ah Bill Clinton, the only president to commit perjury under oath and
NOT be kicked out of office.
G.W. Bush, the only President to out an under cover CIA asset simply
because her husband saw him for what he was.
If you make me President I will pardon you - Gerald Ford.

 

[Quint Rankid]

Quint Rankidæ–¼ 2012å¹´2月21日星期二UTC+8上åˆ9時26分01秒寫é“：

I believe that captalism is suitable for the north America now.
It is not the same other continents.

Free markets and minds are good for everyone everywhere.

Europe is not self-sufficient in producing food or fuels.

Which has exactly what to do with anything?

If the supply side is not solved, then look at the revolutions in north
Africa recently. The question is who can supply the shortages will step in the region in the upper hand in the gambling, either food or labor of products.

There are no guarantees. Anyone who makes guarantees about the supply
of fuel, wheat, snow or medical care is telling a fib.

 

[Quint Rankid]

Quint Rankid wrote:




You are either making stuff as you go along or simply trolling.

A fascinating accusation. I wasn't going to respond to anything in
this thread again, but you got me.

Please tell me exactly what "stuff" you think I'm making up as I go
along. Please be specific.

Please tell me how the stuff you suggest I'm making up differs from
someone saying that "many people" think that making a profit in a free
market is unethical. Even if "many people" feel that way, aren't the
ethical beliefs they have made up? Or are those ethics some sort of
fact with a basis in physical reality? Please tell me why you didn't
accuse the poster who suggested an ethical problem of making stuff up
and being a troll too. TIA

 

[Rui Maciel]

A fascinating accusation. I wasn't going to respond to anything in
this thread again, but you got me.

Please tell me exactly what "stuff" you think I'm making up as I go
along. Please be specific.

Please tell me how the stuff you suggest I'm making up differs from
someone saying that "many people" think that making a profit in a free
market is unethical.

The concept of being right by proxy doesn't exist, particularly when your
claim is patently absurd.


Rui Maciel

 

[Quint Rankid]

The concept of being right by proxy doesn't exist, particularly when your
claim is patently absurd.

Ah, well, more the fool me! I ought to have been able to anticipate
the sort of response you'd make based on what you previously posted,
but I do appreciate the fabulous hand waving you've displayed, I
really do. Although, it's not as impressive as an actual argument
would have been but I suppose accusations often substitute for
substantive argument on usenet and you're certainly a good example of
that.

But look on the bright side. You got me.


Have a nice and thoughtful day.

 

[jacob navia]

Le 26/02/12 05:46, Quint Rankid a écrit :

A fascinating accusation. I wasn't going to respond to anything in
this thread again, but you got me.

Please tell me exactly what "stuff" you think I'm making up as I go
along. Please be specific.

Please tell me how the stuff you suggest I'm making up differs from
someone saying that "many people" think that making a profit in a free
market is unethical.

You and your masters manipulate and control the "free" market as you
have well described in your previous messages. Those markets aren't
"free" but rigged for your masters, that give you some crumbs to you.

You feel happy, well fed, and ignore the misery all around you because
you have swallowed all that ideology from your masters into your being
until nothing is left but a mere slave, or... better, a "free agent".

Even if "many people" feel that way, aren't the
ethical beliefs they have made up?

Hey wait a minute pal... to speak about "ethics" you have to have one.
ALL your "ethics" can be described in one word:

MONEY

For instance you say:

I suspect that even before they're done with the PIGS
the Germans will run out of a) money b) patience.

Who are the "PIGS"?

Well, financial slaves call Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain
PIGS in a nice acronym to make us forget WHO ARE THE REAL PIGS!

Or are those ethics some sort of
fact with a basis in physical reality?

The big banks/financial institutions (your masters) have discovered
how to rig a previously open market into a rigged one with the help
of people like you.

If they win they keep their money, if they loose we have to pay their
debts and clean up after them so that they can start again.

And I am not talking about "many people think" here. I am signing
with MY name, this is what I think and I believe.


Jacob Navia
Paris, France

 

[Rui Maciel]

Who are the "PIGS"?

Well, financial slaves call Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain
PIGS in a nice acronym to make us forget WHO ARE THE REAL PIGS!

As a side note, there is an interesting pattern regarding the use of the
infamous P.I.G.S. acronym.

When the accusations of economic woes were only tacked on Portugal, Ireland,
Greece and Spain, it was used extensively, along with any detrimental and
insulting pun that anyone could muster and a string of blanket accusations
of incompetence attributed to entire countries, eventhough there is nothing
in common between those countries' problems.

When Italy also found its public finances in shambles, the media was quick
to expand the acronym to include them, and so the same string of insulting
accusations were extended to also include them, and the P.I.I.G.S. was born.

Yet, mysteriously, when the economy of Great Britain made the news for its
equally disastrous state, suddenly the use of the P.I.G.S. acronym (or
P.I.I.G.G.S.) simply ceased. No one refers to the P.I.G.S. anymore.
Instead we are dealing with a world financial crisis, a global recession, an
unfortunate twist of fate which no one could ever foresee, and simply a
natural, cyclical economic event which could happen to any state, no matter
how ingenious, competent and exemplary their leaders are.


Rui Maciel

 

[Ian Collins]

Yet, mysteriously, when the economy of Great Britain made the news for its
equally disastrous state, suddenly the use of the P.I.G.S. acronym (or
P.I.I.G.G.S.) simply ceased. No one refers to the P.I.G.S. anymore.
Instead we are dealing with a world financial crisis, a global recession, an
unfortunate twist of fate which no one could ever foresee, and simply a
natural, cyclical economic event which could happen to any state, no matter
how ingenious, competent and exemplary their leaders are.

Maybe the acronym generator was written in Java and the VM exhausted all
available memory? Now if it had been written in C++...

 

[Ebenezer]

Maybe the acronym generator was written in Java and the VM exhausted all
available memory?  Now if it had been written in C++...

I encourage people to get out of debt and stay out of debt...
rent or buy a place you can afford to pay cash for. Thanks to
George W. and Obama the US is in as big a mess as the PIGS.
Will Germany survive? By trying to help some others it may
be pulled under also.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net

 

[Quint Rankid]

Le 26/02/12 05:46, Quint Rankid a écrit :

You and your masters manipulate and control the "free" market as you
have well described in your previous messages. Those markets aren't
"free" but rigged for your masters, that give you some crumbs to you.

You feel happy, well fed, and ignore the misery all around you because
you have swallowed all that ideology from your masters into your being
until nothing is left but a mere slave, or... better, a "free agent".


Hey wait a minute pal... to speak about "ethics" you have to have one.
ALL your "ethics" can be described in one word:

MONEY

For instance you say:
 > I suspect that even before they're done with the PIGS
 > the Germans will run out of a) money b) patience.

Who are the "PIGS"?

Well, financial slaves call Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain
PIGS in a nice acronym to make us forget WHO ARE THE REAL PIGS!


The big banks/financial institutions (your masters) have discovered
how to rig a previously open market into a rigged one with the help
of people like you.

If they win they keep their money, if they loose we have to pay their
debts and clean up after them so that they can start again.

And I am not talking about "many people think" here. I am signing
with MY name, this is what I think and I believe.

Jacob Navia
Paris, France

Even though I disagree with much of what you've written, I applaud you
for your honesty. Sigh. Yes, it's true, as time has gone by my
country has started to abandon its free market principles and has
substituted something that is starting to look a lot like crony
capitalism.

History suggests this sort of thing tends not to turn out well.

In other news, Germany is starting to realize that it's important to
select lenders that will repay. Perhaps they're learning from the
mistakes, that monument of corruption, the US mortgage industry, made.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,816903,00.html

No. Probably not.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,817881,00.html
I wonder if this repeat of history is the tragedy or the farce?

Ah well, c'est la guerre.

 

[seasoned_geek]

Have you ever tried to get software based on Qt to run on those platforms?
How did that worked out?  Oh, I see.

Unlike you, yes I have. There are active Qt ports for many platforms
including OpenVMS. Unlike Java, I really can compile a Qt application
which runs on VMS and another platform.

 

[seasoned_geek]

Oh. Side notes.  Goody. I want to write a side note too.

Goody! I want to write a side note too. When your application IS the
STOCK EXCHANGE it has to process all of the volume it receives in a
near instantaneous manner.

Of course, when it doesn't, then it is the London Stock Exchange and
it is running a trading floor system developed by Arthur
Andersen...errr...Accenture using their high class off-shore labor,
Microsoft Windows, and Visual Basic.

http://www.computerworlduk.com/news...-declares-millennium-it-migration-successful/

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/the-london-stock-exchange-moves-to-novell-linux/8285