cleaner alternative for cast

J

Jerry Gerrone

[reams upon reams of insults, false accusations, and unbelievable hyperbole deleted]

No, you're the powder keg, the mad bomber, the troll, and the one
that's going to hell, and nothing is ever my fault.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

I have already explained elsewhere the reason for the "dozen or more
aliases". It is to work around problems with Google Groups. For which
I *still* have found no alternative that doesn't have even worse
problems.
If you have an excuse for your behavior, please speak now, and give your apology before the witnesses gathered here.

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with my behavior. If you'd look more
closely you'd find that all I tended to do was defend myself, that is
when I wasn't simply posting useful and on-topic posts. And the
"hydrogen bomb" was just an offhand comment for Chrissake. Nobody
could have predicted that all hell would break loose, especially since
I'd made plenty of similar remarks before without consequences
remotely comparable to the Thread from Hell resulting. The difference
has to have been made by somebody else (and his initials, I suspect,
are B. C. D.).
If you do not, then know that your soul is forever tainted!

I don't respond well to threats.

Besides, I'm a rationalist. Souls, eternal taint, and the like are
fiction and I know it, so your threats are completely incapable of
getting me to quake in my boots. Find someone more susceptible to that
sort of thing. I see from your google profile that you've posted to
alt.religion.* recently -- go bother them some more, you'll have far
better luck trolling over there I expect. At the very least, get your
flames and your mystical claptrap the **** out of
comp.lang.java.programmer! We've had enough flamewars in this
newsgroup to last us a lifetime; we don't need you starting another
one.

P.S. None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me
are at all true.
 
J

Jerry Gerrone

blue said:
[insult deleted]

None of the nasty things that blue indigo has said or implied about me
are at all true.
Seems to me that "plonk" is the antithesis of [implied insult
deleted], but thanks for the excellent and clearly much-needed
advice.

Thanks for nothing.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
 
L

Lew

blue said:
Why?

(Oh, look. <http://tinyurl.com/c7a986> My Google Groups star rating has
gone straight to hell. I wonder why? What a load of wankers.)

Because I believe that telling the troll you aren't listening any more lets
him know that you aren't listening any more, sort of like telling him you've
taken the food away.
 
B

blue indigo

Because I believe that telling the troll you aren't listening any more lets
him know that you aren't listening any more, sort of like telling him you've
taken the food away.

And now he knows for sure when it's time to nymshift again, whereas
otherwise it might be a week or two before he figures out enough regulars
have plonked him that he needs to or he'll starve.

And you've cluttered up the affected newsgroup with one more offtopic post.

But if you're going to, at least try to do it with style. The next time I
audibly plonk someone, I'll do it with verve -- watch this space.

It shouldn't be too long. It's *always* September, *somewhere* on the net.

ObJava: Does anyone here have much experience interoperating Java code
with code written for other languages targeting the JVM? (Jython, Clojure,
etc.) I imagine there might be problems, especially with those two, since
they're weakly typed (Python and Lisp derivatives, respectively) and Java
is strongly typed. (Even the JVM has a built in notion of types and built
in type checking, does it not? So I expect weakly typed languages
targeting the JVM have all their objects appear to be Object or some other
common type as far as the JVM bytecode verifier's view of the type system
is concerned.)

Also, what else has targeted the JVM in the way of ports of preexisting
languages? Smalltalk and Eiffel would be interesting. I've never seen an
Eiffel with a good host integration/network/gui/goodies library, but one
that readily interoperated with Java would get access to one, and Eiffel
is strongly typed. Likewise, I've never seen a Smalltalk with preemptive
multithreading or decent performance, likewise, but implementing one that
used Hotspot as its VM would get you both of those pretty much for free.
 
D

Daniel Pitts

Lew said:
Because I believe that telling the troll you aren't listening any more
lets him know that you aren't listening any more, sort of like telling
him you've taken the food away.
I personally think that not replying at all is the best way to ignore
someone. That's my opinion, and that's what I do.

@blue: Who f***ing cares about your Google Groups start rating?
 
R

RedGrittyBrick

Daniel said:
I personally think that not replying at all is the best way to ignore
someone. That's my opinion, and that's what I do.
WHS


@blue: Who f***ing cares about your Google Groups start rating?

I find it hard to conceive of a more uselessly counter-productive rating
system than that currently employed by Google in their least-loved product.
 
L

Lew

blue said:
ObJava: Does anyone here have much experience interoperating Java code
with code written for other languages targeting the JVM? (Jython, Clojure,
etc.) I imagine there might be problems, especially with those two, since
they're weakly typed (Python and Lisp derivatives, respectively) and Java
is strongly typed. (Even the JVM has a built in notion of types and built
in type checking, does it not? So I expect weakly typed languages
targeting the JVM have all their objects appear to be Object or some other
common type as far as the JVM bytecode verifier's view of the type system
is concerned.)

Also, what else has targeted the JVM in the way of ports of preexisting
languages? Smalltalk and Eiffel would be interesting. I've never seen an
Eiffel with a good host integration/network/gui/goodies library, but one
that readily interoperated with Java would get access to one, and Eiffel
is strongly typed. Likewise, I've never seen a Smalltalk with preemptive
multithreading or decent performance, likewise, but implementing one that
used Hotspot as its VM would get you both of those pretty much for free.

Strictly speaking, if you're going to introduce a brand new topic you should
start a new thread. Otherwise you risk folks not noticing your questions.

My post here should help call attention to them and thus help you receive answers.

To your first question, I'm afraid I haven't much experience in that area. To
the second, GIYF.
 
R

RedGrittyBrick

Lew said:
What does "WHS" mean?

Sorry, it's a common abbreviation in another forum I frequent and I'd
overlooked that it wasn't common in newsgroups.

"What He Said" - indicating agreement.

A similar riposte (or self deprecating variation) might be "AOL",
suggesting that only a clueless newbie adds comments consisting solely
of "me too" or equivalent. :)

I love how seriously some people take it, though.

I've not read Slashdot much in recent years but I found it interesting
to read the Slashdot FAQs for moderation and "karma"†. Even if
Slashdot's scoring system leaves a lot to be desired, it certainly
appears that vastly more thought and experimentation went into that than
into Google's.

† buried within http://slashdot.org/faq/com-mod.shtml
 
J

Joshua Cranmer

RedGrittyBrick said:
I find it hard to conceive of a more uselessly counter-productive rating
system than that currently employed by Google in their least-loved product.

I find most user-defined rating schemes to be rather poor proxies for
the actual worthiness of the content of posts. Does anyone know of an
instance where such schemes are reliable proxies?

Here are the instances in which I've found them:

Google Groups: EXTREMELY bad proxy. Most of the enlightened denizens are
accessing Usenet via NNTP servers, where the only things they see are
the postings. Most trolls and spammers also use GG, so that anyone who
pisses one of those people off will probably see a hit to their ratings.

Slashdot: This works well, sometimes. Most truly idiotic posts are rated
down into oblivion, and most worthwhile posts make it high. But I've
noticed that comments which take unpopular viewpoints (i.e., Windows
might not be the worst thing ever created) tend to hover in the lower
ranges, and many of the (IMHO) tired memes (some variation of `first
post!' in reference to the article) tend to be modded +5 funny. It's
probably the best I've seen, but it's far from perfect.

Bugzilla voting: This is apparently surprising to many people, who
probably don't see the inherent bias that is time. Which do you think
more Thunderbird users would rather see fixed: the bug that duplicates
RSS feed items or the bug that doesn't synchronize read state of
crossposted news messages? Votes would imply that approx. 3 times as
many people want to see the latter fixed as opposed to the former, which
is way too much in my opinion. The latter is also twice as old as the
former.
 
A

Arne Vajh¸j

blue said:
ObJava: Does anyone here have much experience interoperating Java code
with code written for other languages targeting the JVM? (Jython, Clojure,
etc.) I imagine there might be problems, especially with those two, since
they're weakly typed (Python and Lisp derivatives, respectively) and Java
is strongly typed. (Even the JVM has a built in notion of types and built
in type checking, does it not? So I expect weakly typed languages
targeting the JVM have all their objects appear to be Object or some other
common type as far as the JVM bytecode verifier's view of the type system
is concerned.)

I have occasionally experimented with Jython and jGnat.

You would usually do Jython->Java not Java->Jython which somewhat
reduces the problem.

Also note that even though Object references will be used then
the actual objects will still be specific types.

Let me give an example.

J.java:

public class J {
public void print(int v) {
System.out.println("int: " + v);
}
public void print(String v) {
System.out.println("String: " + v);
}
}

P.py:

import J
o = J()
v = 123
print v
o.print(v)
v = "abc"
print v
o.print(v)

Output:

123
int: 123
abc
String: abc

Decompile of compiled Python code:

// Decompiled by DJ v3.7.7.81 Copyright 2004 Atanas Neshkov Date:
10-02-2009 21:03:36
// Home Page : http://members.fortunecity.com/neshkov/dj.html - Check
often for new version!
// Decompiler options: packimports(3)
// Source File Name: P.java

import org.python.core.*;

public class P
{
public static class _PyInner extends PyFunctionTable
implements PyRunnable
{

private static void initConstants()
{
i$0 = Py.newInteger(123);
s$1 = Py.newString("abc");
s$2 = Py.newString("C:\\P.py");
funcTable = new _PyInner();
c$0_main = Py.newCode(0, new String[0], "C:\\P.py", "main",
false, false, funcTable, 0, null, null, 0, 0);
}

public PyCode getMain()
{
if(c$0_main == null)
initConstants();
return c$0_main;
}

public PyObject call_function(int i, PyFrame pyframe)
{
switch(i)
{
case 0: // '\0'
return main$1(pyframe);
}
return null;
}

private static PyObject main$1(PyFrame pyframe)
{
pyframe.setglobal("__file__", s$2);
pyframe.setlocal("J", imp.importOne("J", pyframe));
pyframe.setlocal("o", pyframe.getname("J").__call__());
pyframe.setlocal("v", i$0);
Py.println(pyframe.getname("v"));
pyframe.getname("o").invoke("print", pyframe.getname("v"));
pyframe.setlocal("v", s$1);
Py.println(pyframe.getname("v"));
pyframe.getname("o").invoke("print", pyframe.getname("v"));
return Py.None;
}

private static PyObject i$0;
private static PyObject s$1;
private static PyObject s$2;
private static PyFunctionTable funcTable;
private static PyCode c$0_main;

public _PyInner()
{
}
}


public P()
{
}

public static void moduleDictInit(PyObject pyobject)
{
pyobject.__setitem__("__name__", new PyString("P"));
Py.runCode((new _PyInner()).getMain(), pyobject, pyobject);
}

public static void main(String args[])
throws Exception
{
String args1[] = new String[args.length + 1];
args1[0] = "P";
System.arraycopy(args, 0, args1, 1, args.length);
Py.runMain(P$_PyInner.class, args1, jpy$packages,
jpy$mainProperties, null, new String[] {
"P"
});
}

static String jpy$mainProperties[] = {
"python.modules.builtin", "exceptions:eek:rg.python.core.exceptions"
};
static String jpy$proxyProperties[] = {
"python.modules.builtin",
"exceptions:eek:rg.python.core.exceptions",
"python.options.showJavaExceptions", "true"
};
static String jpy$packages[] = new String[0];

}
Also, what else has targeted the JVM in the way of ports of preexisting
languages? Smalltalk and Eiffel would be interesting. I've never seen an
Eiffel with a good host integration/network/gui/goodies library, but one
that readily interoperated with Java would get access to one, and Eiffel
is strongly typed. Likewise, I've never seen a Smalltalk with preemptive
multithreading or decent performance, likewise, but implementing one that
used Hotspot as its VM would get you both of those pretty much for free.

The links at http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~tolk/vmlanguages.html does not
all seem to be valid, but maybe you can track down the software.

Arne
 
B

blue indigo

I love how seriously some people take it, though.

Just to clarify, I don't. I just found it amusing that after I tangled a
couple of times with that soul_mirror troll, my google groups rating took
a sharp nosedive. :)

And I bit the bullet and used GG a bit more to examine my own posting
history, and it's the posts in the soul mirror threads that got
down-voted. Something like twenty times each. Guy must have a fan club or
something, or Google's ratings are even more broken than I'd assumed and
it's possible to vote multiple times.

Scratch that, I just confirmed it really is that broken! I have a gmail
account, and I think that creates a google groups account whether you use
it as one or not. I just clicked one of those star thingies a few times,
reloaded the page, and it had gone from no rating to three stars, five
users. Not one user, five users.

*shakes head in astonishment*

So all some wanker with too much free time has to do is sit there (in,
say, Pittsburgh) clicking his mouse all day and I can go from zero to ten
thousand one-star ratings in a matter of hours. And that's _without_ his
having to find all of my posts and give them each a bad rating, or keep
changing his IP address or something. He just has to find one, log on, and
hammer on it. Sheesh.

They couldn't really avoid it being possible at all, but did they have to
make it so _easy_ for them?

Things like this tempt me to shove groups.google.com back into my hosts
file. :)
 
J

Jerry Gerrone

Google Groups: [implied serious insults deleted]

No, you're the spammer and the troll.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
 
J

Jerry Gerrone

And I bit the bullet and used GG a bit more to examine my own posting
history, and it's the posts in the soul mirror threads that got
down-voted. Something like twenty times each. Guy must have a fan club or
something, or Google's ratings are even more broken than I'd assumed and
it's possible to vote multiple times.

Scratch that, I just confirmed it really is that broken! I have a gmail
account, and I think that creates a google groups account whether you use
it as one or not.

It does.
I just clicked one of those star thingies a few times,
reloaded the page, and it had gone from no rating to three stars, five
users. Not one user, five users.

*shakes head in astonishment*

Holy shit, he's right! I just performed the same test, finding a JSH
troll-post somewhere and down-voting it madly. It now has something
like 300 users, one star.

Time to complain to Google about yet another GG bug, methinks.
So all some wanker with too much free time has to do is sit there (in,
say, Pittsburgh) clicking his mouse all day and I can go from zero to ten
thousand one-star ratings in a matter of hours.

That explains why I've sometimes seen one of mine show one star, 250
users or some such shit. Obviously one of the bigger losers around
here knows about this particular bit of brokenness, and has exploited
it in a personal vendetta against me. I have a particular name in
mind, who has hassled me a lot in the past and who posted for a while
using GG, but I'm not going to actually name it, as he'll just pop up
instantly to flame me and deny everything, the stalker.
Things like this tempt me to shove groups.google.com back into my hosts
file. :)

There are three reasons not to do that.

1. If you lose your NNTP access, it becomes your only way to read
and post to Usenet.
2. The archive can be quite useful for various purposes.
3. The archive, for better or worse, may play a substantial role
in your reputation, if someone googles you. Best to keep an
eye on it then.
 
J

Joshua Cranmer

Jerry said:
Google Groups: [implied serious insults deleted]

No, you're the spammer and the troll.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

*mutters something about Eternal September.*
 

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