CSS font sizes - what's best to use?

[dorayme]

Whoah, that's proving a bit much for my little brain. I didn't even
know you could do '1.1' without units. Isn't that equivalent to 110%?

Thanks for the explanation. I'll have to do more homework on that
subject.

No need to do any homework. Just don't use units with line height
unless it occurs to you why you should.

 

[dorayme]

Anything less than 100% for paragraph text is
degraded usability. Only designers think otherwise.

Not just (print media) designers. Clients of good wholesome
website makers (like me) who like to have main body text at 100%
quite often think otherwise. There is a simple reason for it.
They (and browser packagers) have set their browsers to read
(more or less comfortably?) the average web page. The average web
page uses less than 100% font-size. So 100% looks suddenly big to
them. To me it looks right and the average wrong. But then, I
have been around here a while, can see further than most and am
tall and athletic and fast - real fast - at the command + key
combo, faster than Bob Munden
(http://www.bob-munden.com/legends.htm) can draw a gun.

But don't get your tie all knotted Bergi, I support you in your
font-size stance. Stances are important. But they are stances,
not reportage of facts. I wish someone else besides me would at
least see this at alt.html. I did notice someone say similar
recently somewhere else, so there are at least two beings in this
universe who see this "arms-race" point.

 

[dorayme]

Still looking for: html { font-size: 100% }

Well, you have found and can easily find tons on _this_ subject
right here and in the archives of this newsgroup.

You could try a book:

The Amazing Em Unit and Other CSS Best Practices
€ By Hakon Wium Lie, Bert Bos.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

For those who wake five hours after you, what do you know about that
business of setting HTML to font-size 100% to fix some em bug in IE?

As I understand it, IE6 and less have a bug where if the body font is
set at 1em (or any amount of em), the browser's text size changes
(medium, larger, etc) really screw up and show something twice as big
instead of only a few percentage points or pixels larger.

Wasn't sure if DP meant HTML or was neutral as between Body and HTML
on this issue... Perhaps I should ask him? Hoy there, Dylan Parry...

He's probably gone to bed by now ...

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

But then, I have been around here a while, can see further than most
and am tall and athletic and fast - real fast - at the command + key
combo, faster than Bob Munden (http://www.bob-munden.com/legends.htm)
can draw a gun.

"WARNING: Shooting Fast Draw with live ammunition (real bullets) is VERY
dangerous. Don't ever try it -- even once!"

Oh, don't ask how I know about *that* ...

 

[K A Nuttall]

Well, you have found and can easily find tons on _this_ subject
right here and in the archives of this newsgroup.

It's amazing how many useless results you get from googling: css html
"font-size: 100%" medium

I found the detail on the IE em scaling bug, but I've still found
nothing about using 100% instead of medium. Looks like I'll have to
experiment.

You could try a book:

I could, but it seems like overkill under the circumstances. Thanks for
the recommendation though.

Many thanks to everyone who steered me in the right direction, by the
way, it's been very useful. And bollocks to those who would rather pour
scorn on my reply than help the OP.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

dorayme wrote:

...and in others.

It's amazing how many useless results you get from googling: css html
"font-size: 100%" medium

Here's a thread from 2004, discussing this same subject once again.

I found the detail on the IE em scaling bug, but I've still found
nothing about using 100% instead of medium. Looks like I'll have to
experiment.

body { font-size: 100%; }

And if you set the sizes of your container boxes and margins with em
units, the page will flex with whatever sizing the visitor chooses. Best
of all worlds.

 

[Toby Inkster]

What is the best way to do things because I'm inclined to get the way of
specific font sizes perhaps with a small and large view?
Is there a way of keeping everyone happy without compromising on the look?

As I'm sure you can see from the rest of the thread, font sizes are a
hugely contentious issue, so to avoid upsetting anyone, it's probably
best to not set any font sizes at all.

 

[Toby Inkster]

Ah fun, didn't know that one! Pity I only use IE with IETab from within
Firefox

That doesn't make it any less dirty.

 

[Kevin Scholl]

Webdesign is *not* graphic design. Graphic design is making pretty
pictures for posters and other such *printed* media. The Web is not a
printed medium, and the sooner designers understand this, the better.

Since when is graphic design limited to printed media? The Web is a
(primarily) visual medium, and therefore graphical in nature. I think
most people in the field (myself included) would argue pretty vehemently
that Web design is part of the overall graphic design realm.

That said, you are most certainly correct that the Web is not print, and
should not be treated as such.

--

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
Kevin Scholl http://www.ksscholl.com/
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Kevin Scholl]

It can be argued that forms are tables, so I think only the staunchest
pedant will argue against it.

It can be argued just as staunchly that forms are NOT tables.

A lot depends on the nature of the form and how it's laid out. A simple
two column form with labels on the left and form fields on the right is
remarkably simple to present without a table, and in fact can be done
via only CSS with much less code than what it takes with a table.
Multi-column forms may, however, be tighter with a single table to lay
out the grid, then CSS to place the labels and fields within.

In general, this becomes a matter of analyzing the possible solutions
and knowing the tools and methods available to develop the best one.

--

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
Kevin Scholl http://www.ksscholl.com/
(e-mail address removed)

 

[K A Nuttall]

Here's a thread from 2004, discussing this same subject once again.

Thanks. I've bookmarked it for later.

I've already been through a couple of my sites making minor changes, as
a result of this thread. Funnily enough, they don't appear any
different in my tests, but it's always good feeling to do the 'right
thing'.

 

[Dylan Parry]

That doesn't make it any less dirty.

Heh. You want to try making commercial sites without checking them in
IE? <g>

--
Dylan Parry
http://electricfreedom.org | http://webpageworkshop.co.uk

Programming, n: A pastime similar to banging one's head
against a wall, but with fewer opportunities for reward.

 

[Dylan Parry]

As I understand it, IE6 and less have a bug where if the body font is
set at 1em (or any amount of em), the browser's text size changes
(medium, larger, etc) really screw up and show something twice as big
instead of only a few percentage points or pixels larger.

That's how I understand it, yes. Instead of scaling at what would be a
"normal" ratio, selecting /largest/ could make text gigantic, and
likewise /smallest/ could make it so small that even a fly's poop looks
large in comparison.

He's probably gone to bed by now ...

Heh, at 9.15pm? I think I was having a nice coffee and playing games at
that time. My favourite way to relax after a long day at work

--
Dylan Parry
http://electricfreedom.org | http://webpageworkshop.co.uk

Programming, n: A pastime similar to banging one's head
against a wall, but with fewer opportunities for reward.

 

[Joe (GKF)]

This is usenet - people will argue that the royal family don't really
eat babies, but that doesn't change anything.

The Danish Royal family don't. Dunno about the Brits.

Forms aren't any more tables than fish are lunch. mmmm - lunch
The layout of some controls on some forms may be desirable to use a
grid layout. Grid layouts in HTML might be argued to be tables, but
this is a long way from equating "forms in general" with them.

Label, input. I reckon if you can put meaningful headings at the top,
it's a legit table. Anyway, if it's good enough for Toby ...

 

[Joe (GKF)]

"WARNING: Shooting Fast Draw with live ammunition (real bullets) is VERY
dangerous. Don't ever try it -- even once!"

Oh, don't ask how I know about *that* ...

-bts
-Quickdraw McGraw
"Hey Bubba-Louie, are you all right?"

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

-bts
-Quickdraw McGraw
"Hey Bubba-Louie, are you all right?"

Are you asking? Hey, I said don't ask!

 

[Joe (GKF)]

Are you asking? Hey, I said don't ask!

"'s all right"

 

[Andy Dingley]

Label, input. I reckon if you can put meaningful headings at the top,
it's a legit table. Anyway, if it's good enough for Toby ...

Possibly. This isn't my point though.

Although _some_ foms might wish to use a grid layout, that's a long way
from saying that _all_ forms want a grid layout.

 

[K A Nuttall]

Here's a thread from 2004, discussing this same subject once
again.
<http://groups.google.com/group/macromedia.dreamweaver/browse_frm/t
hread/3ab1dd1b8a3e05b2/1fe477e46feec3b3?tvc=1&q=alt.html+why+not+us
e+font+size+keywords#1fe477e46feec3b3>

Oh god, I need to lie down. Unfortunately, that thread is a bit like
this one: full of conflicting opinions, thinly veiled insults,
dogmatism, and very little hard fact - and eleven pages of it, in
Google Groups.

I've adopted this 100% idea, for a test period. Some sources say to use
it on <html>, some say <body>, and nowhere can I find an in-depth
analysis of its effects on different browsers, compared to the use of
size names, other than using it to counteract the effects of the IE em
bug. I'll have to find time to experiment with this.