css 'table' tutorial

[Barry Pearson]

Virtually any layout which can be created using tables can be created
using CSS. If you don't know how to do it right, tell you client to
find a more competent web designer.

[snip]

Surely the criteria for judgement about "right" should be "can this author
help this website communicate with the audience?"

HTML & CSS techniques are means to that end, not ends in themselves.

 

[Karl Groves]

Virtually any layout which can be created using tables can be created
using CSS. If you don't know how to do it right, tell you client to find
a more competent web designer.

This is most certainly not true. I've seen graphic designs (PSD "templates")
from graphic designers that cannot be replicated without either being a)
broken on some major browser (read as: IE) or b) too image-heavy.

Combining a pure CSS layout with really hot looking graphics requires a
graphic designer that knows & understands CSS. Unfortunately, most good
graphic designers know fuckall about HTML and CSS. :-(

-Karl

 

[Whitecrest]

A bit of philosophy, from Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. "Well maybe the real
God uses tricks. Maybe he's not omnipotent; he's just been around so long he
knows everything". That appears to be the main trick to using CSS. Be around
long enough, using it, learning the tricks, until you can start to appear
omnipotent!

Love it!

 

[Whitecrest]

Combining a pure CSS layout with really hot looking graphics requires a
graphic designer that knows & understands CSS. Unfortunately, most good
graphic designers know fuckall about HTML and CSS. :-(

And most web developers know diddly squat about design and marketing.
It is a two way street. The best solution is always in the middle
somewhere.

 

[Big Bill]

And most web developers know diddly squat about design and marketing.
It is a two way street. The best solution is always in the middle
somewhere.

Well I can't understand either; you think that's why folk come to me?

BB

 

[Spartanicus]

This is most certainly not true. I've seen graphic designs (PSD "templates")
from graphic designers that cannot be replicated without either being a)
broken on some major browser (read as: IE)

The *capability* of CSS for creating layouts is an entity separate from
the failures of IE. The practical usability is another matter given
those same failures.

or b) too image-heavy.

A failure of the designer surely, not an argument against the
capabilities of css used to create a layout.

Unfortunately, most good graphic designers know fuckall about HTML and CSS. :-(

Vice versa good coders are almost always poor in the design department.

 

[Kris]

Vice versa good coders are almost always poor in the design department.

Both often proof to be evenly poor in the communication department.

 

[Whitecrest]

Both often proof to be evenly poor in the communication department.

http://www.cinnamon.nl/

Excellent mix of design and code! (I like the images)

 

[Spartanicus]

Both often proof to be evenly poor in the communication department.

Techies and artistic folk don't gel naturally, something to do with left
versus right brain halves I imagine. But in my experience it's much more
difficult to get a designer to understand that certain aspects should be
left to the coder than it is to get a coder to leave the graphic design
to the designer.

Imo there's little point in trying to teach designers how to code, or
coders how to design. Pairing the two is the key to good looking and
properly coded web sites.

 

[Whitecrest]

Techies and artistic folk don't gel naturally, something to do with left
versus right brain halves I imagine.

But software development (coding in general) is often though of as
artistic in nature. I read somewhere (I am sure a search of google
would produce it) an article that said a disproportional number of
programmers were left handed. Additionally, an even more
disproportional percentage played a musical instrument.

A quote from the article that has always stuck with me was "Programing
is an art, where your palette is logic.

You have programmers that are programers because they went to school,
then you have programmers that write code the way Picasso painted.

Imo there's little point in trying to teach designers how to code, or
coders how to design. Pairing the two is the key to good looking and
properly coded web sites.

I agree.

 

[nice.guy.nige]

But software development (coding in general) is often though of as
artistic in nature. I read somewhere (I am sure a search of google
would produce it) an article that said a disproportional number of
programmers were left handed. Additionally, an even more
disproportional percentage played a musical instrument.

Indeed. http://www.fula.co.uk/about/nigeBiog.html I'm not left-handed
though. Apparantly my Grandfather was, but he was made to use his right hand
at school - something about left-handedness being akin to being posessed by
the Devil!

A quote from the article that has always stuck with me was "Programing
is an art, where your palette is logic.

I have always felt that programming is the bridge between science and art,
and other programmers I have mentioned this to have agreed.

You have programmers that are programers because they went to school,
then you have programmers that write code the way Picasso painted.

{{shudder}} We've all seen their code! I'd be quite keen to adopt a Dali
style myself... Now, I want a clock on my website, but it has to melt! ;-)

I agree.

I work with a very talented designer from time to time, and the amount of
times I have had to tell him to stop and take a step back, and remind him
that designing for the web is not like designing for print. He is getting
better, though - especially since someone showed him one of his designs on
Opera with plenty of zoom!

Cheers,
Nige

--
Nigel Moss.

Email address is not valid. (e-mail address removed). Take the dog out!
http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!! http://www.stopesso.com
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is very, very busy!