DO NOT USE JAVA BECAUSE IT IS NOT OPEN SOURCE

[atbusbook]

Programing Languiges Are Ment to be free. That is why i am starting The
<i>Coo De Tar</i> thats french for Blow of state it is a flash/java
alternative and if you are going to use a server side languige use
Perl,Python or better yet Ruby. What is the point of a languige without
a standerd and without a open source distrabution. Coo De Tar will be
released as a api for perl,python and ruby. Java sucks because it IS
NOT FREE. I AM A GNU GUY I BELEVE THAT SOFTWARE MUST AND SHALL BE
FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do not use java because it is an oxymoron

 

[atbusbook]

A Propriatary Languige Is An Oxymorron!!!! A propriatary OS is An
Oxymoron!!!! Take Pro-DOS for example A Knock-off of MS-DOG, the worst
operating system it did not use ONE IOTA OF MS CODE BUT IT was a
sucsefull knockoff. same thing will happen to JAVA!!!!


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
GEORGE ROGERS

 

[Luc The Perverse]

Programing Languiges Are Ment to be free. That is why i am starting The
<i>Coo De Tar</i> thats french for Blow of state it is a flash/java
alternative and if you are going to use a server side languige use
Perl,Python or better yet Ruby. What is the point of a languige without
a standerd and without a open source distrabution. Coo De Tar will be
released as a api for perl,python and ruby. Java sucks because it IS
NOT FREE. I AM A GNU GUY I BELEVE THAT SOFTWARE MUST AND SHALL BE
FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do not use java because it is an oxymoron

Dear Mr Troll,

There are GNU implementations of JVM and compiler.

And just because Sun's Java is not GNU does not mean it is not free.

Now go get a life.

 

[Roedy Green]

Programing Languiges Are Ment to be free. That is why i am starting The
<i>Coo De Tar</i> thats french for Blow of state it is a flash/java
alternative and if you are going to use a server side languige use
Perl,Python or better yet Ruby. What is the point of a languige without
a standerd and without a open source distrabution. Coo De Tar will be
released as a api for perl,python and ruby. Java sucks because it IS
NOT FREE. I AM A GNU GUY I BELEVE THAT SOFTWARE MUST AND SHALL BE
FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do not use java because it is an oxymoron

If you can't even spell, how do you hope to create a language better
than Java?

Oxymoron? Look that up in the dictionary.

Why NOT open source? Check how many upturned turtle icons there are
in the Java glossary next to free software. Without money coming in
to support it, the project dies when the original author gets bored.

Java has a standard, see the JLS see
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jls.html
What it lacks is an INDEPENDENT standards body. However Java is in
much tighter shape than C++, SQL or any of the languages that DO have
a standards body.

 

[Furious George]

Dear Mr Troll,

There are GNU implementations of JVM and compiler.

Dumbass! If you knew anything you would know that GNU stands for "GNU
is Not Upen source." That is why the Coo De Tar project is vital. It
uses a "WINDOWS Is Nifty, Dependable, Open, and WINDOWS Source"
(WINDOWS) license which is uber-open source.

And just because Sun's Java is not GNU does not mean it is not free.

Sun's JAVA is uber-proprietary.

Now go get a life.

Check your calendar!

 

[steve]

Dear Mr Troll,

There are GNU implementations of JVM and compiler.

And just because Sun's Java is not GNU does not mean it is not free.

Now go get a life.

[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

it's April 1st remember

 

[Luc The Perverse]

it's April 1st remember[/QUOTE]

Ah! Thank you

 

[Alex Hunsley]

Programing Languiges Are Ment to be free. That is why i am starting The
<i>Coo De Tar</i>
thats french for Blow of state

No, "Coup d'état" is French.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup

it is a flash/java
alternative and if you are going to use a server side languige use
Perl,Python or better yet Ruby. What is the point of a languige without
a standerd and without a open source distrabution. Coo De Tar will be
released as a api for perl,python and ruby. Java sucks because it IS
NOT FREE. I AM A GNU GUY I BELEVE THAT SOFTWARE MUST AND SHALL BE
FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do not use java because it is an oxymoron

Your AOL is showing. Badly.

 

[pauldacus]

I love messages like this! Just when I think I'm about the dumbest
person in the World, someone comes in and sets a brand new all-time
low. Good Job, Dude.

But call your kickin' ~ditrabation~, "Cooty Tar", or something. That
will insulate all newbies to this list from a lifetime of idiocy. You
have done us all a great service. Watch out for alcohol poisoning. It
affects the <i>speling senters</i> of your brain. I sure <b>hope</b>
Google doesn't escape <i>HTML</i> tags. <stupid>This could be
important</stupid>.

 

[alainpoint]

Bravo, yoo r write, a propriatary languish is an oxy-moron. I have a
rekwest zou: witch languish do yoo rekomend, bikoos yoo seem so a grate
programor, at list zis is wat eye beleve, judging by yoo spelling.
Alain

 

[Monique Y. Mudama]

Why NOT open source? Check how many upturned turtle icons there are
in the Java glossary next to free software. Without money coming in
to support it, the project dies when the original author gets bored.

If it's open source, the source can only die when no one wants to
maintain the code. It's nice if that's the original author, but
projects can be taken over by anyone.

 

[Roedy Green]

If it's open source, the source can only die when no one wants to
maintain the code. It's nice if that's the original author, but
projects can be taken over by anyone.

True. but that is the fate of most of these projects. Without money
coming in, it requires altruistic people to maintain them. They are in
short supply given how many interesting projects there are.

I don't mean to trash open source. Everything I write is.

The main thing you get is the ability to pick up the project yourself
if everyone else drops the ball. But even that in not guaranteed if
you did not keep a fresh copy of the source. Ideally all opens source
would be posted independently of the author so it would live on even
if their own website shut down.

 

[Monique Y. Mudama]

True. but that is the fate of most of these projects. Without money
coming in, it requires altruistic people to maintain them. They are
in short supply given how many interesting projects there are.

The fate of most coding projects is to die. The difference is, if you
like an open source project, you can keep it going, even if that means
paying someone else to do so. If you like a commercial product that's
been EOL'd, you're screwed.

Actually, commercial vs. open source is a false dichotomy. Some
commercial products are open source. Many free products are closed
source.

It's so frustrating for me to hear people say that open source
projects are "risky" when, overall, I've been far better served by
open source than by closed source projects. I've been running debian
linux for, jeez, I don't know how many years now, without ever
needing to do a full reinstall. I read news via slrn, mail via mutt,
irc via irssi. My editor of choice is vim. I don't see any of these
tools disappearing any time soon. How many of us use open source tools
like grep and find on a daily basis?

Many people who've never never even heard the term "open source" still
happily use gcc. Heck, VxWorks ships with it!

I think it's healthy to be skeptical about any software. I don't
think that open source is any more risky, in general, than closed
source.

 

[Oliver Wong]

How many of us use open source tools
like grep and find on a daily basis?

Not me. Maybe more like on a yearly basis, on the odd couple of times I
feel like giving the Linux another shot. For the "average desktop user", you
might have better luck getting an emotional reaction from a name with
"FireFox", "ThunderBird", "Azureus", "eMule", "Bittorrent", "phpBB",
"VirtualDub", "gAim", "ffdshow", "AC3Filter", "ZSnes" etc. Maybe "Apache
httpd", "Hibernate", "phpMyAdmin", etc. in an enterprise environment.

Many people who've never never even heard the term "open source" still
happily use gcc. Heck, VxWorks ships with it!

Never heard of VxWorks before either. I've heard of gcc, but haven't
used it much. Eclipse is pretty popular on this newsgroup, and it's open
source.

I think it's healthy to be skeptical about any software. I don't
think that open source is any more risky, in general, than closed
source.

The concept that open source software is risker is unintuitive to me. To
me, it's exactly the opposite: Closed source software is "riskier" than open
source software. When I download an .exe, I don't know that it'll actually
do what it claims to do. I don't know if the programmer(s) who worked on it
are competent or not. I don't know what kind of assumptions were made by the
developers (strings must always be shorter than 1024 characters? ASCII
characters only? Windows is guaranteed to be located in C:\Windows? etc.)
With open source programs, I can in theory actually look at the source code
and check that it does what it claims, was well designed, and makes
reasonable assumptions. With open source programs written in Java (and to
some degree, PHP), I can actually do this in practice.

I have friends whose "mother programming toungue" is C++. If they tell
me "Yeah, this program is well written; I know because I've actually seen
the source code", I'm much more likely to trust them than if a sales
representative from Microsoft said the same thing, for example.

I guess for "the rest of the world", the impression that open source
software is riskier comes from the adage "you get what you pay for" and
perhaps the belief in security through obscurity. Against both these
(mis?)conceptions, I can't think of a concise argument that could address
all the relevant concerns while still be approachable to the average
layperson (i.e. a non-programmer). Sure, I could tell the naysayers to go
read Bruce Schneider's various essays on obscurity, but how many of them are
going to actually do that?

- Oliver

 

[Roedy Green]

The concept that open source software is risker is unintuitive to me. To
me, it's exactly the opposite: Closed source software is "riskier" than open
source software.

It can cut both ways. With open software you have to option of picking
up the ball yourself or somebody else doing so.

With commercial software (not the direct antonym) you have some money
and seriousness behind the project. There is thus money, not just
altruism, to motivate programmers to continue to support the project.

There is no guarantee. Even big companies drop products without a
word, or get bought out just to reduce competition.

 

[Furious George]

Not me. Maybe more like on a yearly basis, on the odd couple of times I
feel like giving the Linux another shot. For the "average desktop user", you
might have better luck getting an emotional reaction from a name with
"FireFox", "ThunderBird", "Azureus", "eMule", "Bittorrent", "phpBB",
"VirtualDub", "gAim", "ffdshow", "AC3Filter", "ZSnes" etc. Maybe "Apache
httpd", "Hibernate", "phpMyAdmin", etc. in an enterprise environment.


Never heard of VxWorks before either. I've heard of gcc, but haven't
used it much. Eclipse is pretty popular on this newsgroup, and it's open
source.


The concept that open source software is risker is unintuitive to me. To
me, it's exactly the opposite: Closed source software is "riskier" than open
source software. When I download an .exe, I don't know that it'll actually
do what it claims to do. I don't know if the programmer(s) who worked on it
are competent or not. I don't know what kind of assumptions were made by the
developers (strings must always be shorter than 1024 characters? ASCII
characters only? Windows is guaranteed to be located in C:\Windows? etc.)
With open source programs, I can in theory actually look at the source code
and check that it does what it claims, was well designed, and makes
reasonable assumptions. With open source programs written in Java (and to
some degree, PHP), I can actually do this in practice.

I have friends whose "mother programming toungue" is C++. If they tell
me "Yeah, this program is well written; I know because I've actually seen
the source code", I'm much more likely to trust them than if a sales
representative from Microsoft said the same thing, for example.

I guess for "the rest of the world", the impression that open source
software is riskier comes from the adage "you get what you pay for" and
perhaps the belief in security through obscurity. Against both these
(mis?)conceptions, I can't think of a concise argument that could address
all the relevant concerns while still be approachable to the average
layperson (i.e. a non-programmer). Sure, I could tell the naysayers to go
read Bruce Schneider's various essays on obscurity, but how many of them are
going to actually do that?

In theory, closed source software could guarantee performance. (If our
software does not perform as promised we will pay you for your
damages.) In practice, Bill and Friends explicitly do not guarantee
the suitability of their software for any purpose. Since they are
afraid to stand behind their software financially, I don't see any
reason to give them any money.

 

[Kent Paul Dolan]

Programing Languiges Are Ment to be free. That is why i am starting The
<i>Coo De Tar</i> thats french for Blow of state it is a flash/java
alternative and if you are going to use a server side languige use
Perl,Python or better yet Ruby. What is the point of a languige without
a standerd and without a open source distrabution. Coo De Tar will be
released as a api for perl,python and ruby. Java sucks because it IS
NOT FREE. I AM A GNU GUY I BELEVE THAT SOFTWARE MUST AND SHALL BE
FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do not use java because it is an oxymoron

Aside from that your spelling and attitudes are typical
of a grade schooler, you should be aware that provocative
trolling expressions of opinion belong in *.advocacy
newsgroups, not in main hierarchy technical newsgroups.

xanthian.

 

[asj]

Aside from that your spelling and attitudes are typical
of a grade schooler, you should be aware that provocative
trolling expressions of opinion belong in *.advocacy
newsgroups, not in main hierarchy technical newsgroups.

xanthian.

tsk, tsk, will the young never learn? MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND.
Ok, maybe it's the gravitational pull of the sun, but you know what i
mean...

 

[Kent Paul Dolan]

tsk, tsk, will the young never learn?

Thanks for that, my snow white hair and face full
of wrinkles rarely rate _that_ adjective.

xanthian, how old's the geezer, momma? 62 and aging!

 

[Dean G.]

Programing Languiges Are Ment to be free. That is why i am starting The
<i>Coo De Tar</i> thats french for Blow of state it is a flash/java
alternative and if you are going to use a server side languige use
Perl,Python or better yet Ruby. What is the point of a languige without
a standerd and without a open source distrabution. Coo De Tar will be
released as a api for perl,python and ruby. Java sucks because it IS
NOT FREE. I AM A GNU GUY I BELEVE THAT SOFTWARE MUST AND SHALL BE
FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do not use java because it is an oxymoron

Wait, you aren't going far enough. All intellectual property is an
afont. You must stop using all patented devices, all copyrighted
materials, and all tradmarked names. Also, if you know any trade
secrets, you must stop using and condoning them as well.

Of course this means you must stop driving cars, for every car has
patented devices. Even many bicycles are so encumbered, so you might
need to walk. But be careful, many shoes are also patented and
trademarked. God only knows if they also use trade secrets as well, but
ignorance is bliss.

You will also find that such devices as microwaves are truely evil. Not
only are they patented, but they also use closed source software to
operate the device. The chips that run this code are very likely
patented as well. Finally, the manual may be copyrighted. No honorable
human being could even consider using such a device as they offend
every ideal we stand for.

While I am typing this, I realised that my computer uses a patented
CPU, and the BIOS itself is not open source. I will need to switch to
an open CPU design, and find an open source BIOS. I will need to be
very careful not to utilize an evil closed source driver for any of my
peripherals, and be certain that none of the devices are patented. This
means I will need to use technology that is 17 years old or more, so I
expect to be back online soo with a 300 baud modem. I'm not sure if
Fast Page Mode memory is free yet, so I will use an iron core memory
just to be sure. I will need to solder together my own devices, as even
though the patents have expired, the old devices are still encumbered
by trademarks. I'll get back to you in 20 years after I have removed
the last traces of evil intellectual property from my life.

So long commrad,

Dean G.