do serious programmers have a life?

A

amanda992004

Excluding the factors of the brain capability, i.e I am not asking
about this factor, if you are a single, aside from enjoying coding or
debugging, how do you make time to eat properly, i.e healthily w/o
spending big bucks at special healthy food places and also take care of
life's daily chores w/o feeling like a robot. Any time for social
activites with people other than programmers?

Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?
 
A

Alf P. Steinbach

* (e-mail address removed):
Excluding the factors of the brain capability, i.e I am not asking
about this factor, if you are a single, aside from enjoying coding or
debugging, how do you make time to eat properly, i.e healthily w/o
spending big bucks at special healthy food places and also take care of
life's daily chores w/o feeling like a robot. Any time for social
activites with people other than programmers?

Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?

Your question is off-topic in this group, but try [comp.programming].

For convenience I've cross-posted there, and set follow-up there.

XFUT: [comp.programming].
 
M

Mike Wahler

Excluding the factors of the brain capability, i.e I am not asking
about this factor, if you are a single, aside from enjoying coding or
debugging, how do you make time to eat properly, i.e healthily w/o
spending big bucks at special healthy food places and also take care of
life's daily chores w/o feeling like a robot.

Same way someone in any other profession does. Why do you feel
that a programmer must spend all his time programming?
Any time for social
activites with people other than programmers?
Certainly.


Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?

Not from where I'm sitting.

-Mike
 
P

persenaama

Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?

No, not really as it's just means to an end.. if working for
interesting things the work is a lot of fun. :)
 
K

Karl Heinz Buchegger

Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?

Not at all.
It is more like an artist or a scientific discoverer. You know, the
"to boldly go where no man has gone before" thing.
 
M

Milind

Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?

Nopes; Not from where i see it.

Its like you are doing something in art and then that art is being
verified against and system which has definite rules...

In terms of Fashion designers, it has to be creative, innovative and
still "Wearable"... with so much of creative challenges, life just
cannot be like a robot... just cant be.

~M
 
P

Phlip

amanda992004 said:
Excluding the factors of the brain capability, i.e I am not asking
about this factor, if you are a single, aside from enjoying coding or
debugging, how do you make time to eat properly, i.e healthily w/o
spending big bucks at special healthy food places and also take care of
life's daily chores w/o feeling like a robot. Any time for social
activites with people other than programmers?

Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?

How many hours do you work?

The myth that programmers can or should work more than 8 hours a day is
tragic, and is responsible for an incredible amount of lost productivity,
bugs, etc. (But heck, at least we don't cut off the wrong limb like
overworked doctors do...)

When you work, as you get tired, you cross a point where you are not adding
value but removing value from a program. Go home.

One pseudoscientific way to refer to this situation, popular these days
among technocrats, is that programming is "left-brained" and having a life
is "right brained". That's not accurate - all activities use both physical
sides of your brain - but it works adequately as a parable. Exercising your
right brain allows your left to rest and recharge.

Programmers should go home on time and have a life.
 
S

stangerbanger

I am not a,I am not a,I am not a,I am not a ,
I am not a ,I am not a , (BANG) Thank you.
robot.
 
J

Jon Slaughter

Phlip said:
How many hours do you work?

The myth that programmers can or should work more than 8 hours a day is
tragic, and is responsible for an incredible amount of lost productivity,
bugs, etc. (But heck, at least we don't cut off the wrong limb like
overworked doctors do...)

I don't agree with that... many times I have stayed up late at night and
when I "get up" in the morning all my code has been written ;) and it works
usually ;)

When you work, as you get tired, you cross a point where you are not
adding value but removing value from a program. Go home.

Yeah, but what point is that? If you don't work enough you tend not be
productive enough because you are not involved in the coding enough... like
if you try to only code 1 hr a day or something on a complicated project
then on vacation for the rest of the day.


One pseudoscientific way to refer to this situation, popular these days
among technocrats, is that programming is "left-brained" and having a life
is "right brained". That's not accurate - all activities use both physical
sides of your brain - but it works adequately as a parable. Exercising
your right brain allows your left to rest and recharge.

Programmers should go home on time and have a life.

Well, tell that to their bosses ;)
 
P

Phlip

Jon said:
I don't agree with that... many times I have stayed up late at night and
when I "get up" in the morning all my code has been written ;) and it
works usually ;)

I see the ;)s; the word to the newbies is "heroism is not sustainable". The
occassional inspiration-driven all-nighter is mostly harmless.

The original poster reported "feeling like a robot", which is a clear sign
of sleep deprivation.

Fresh thinkers can spot the latent abstractions in their code, express
these, and achieve the "Open Closed Principle", where code is easy to extend
and hard to break. Sleepy thinkers don't spot these abstractions, and make
the same high-risk edits over and over again to add features.
Yeah, but what point is that? If you don't work enough you tend not be
productive enough because you are not involved in the coding enough...
like if you try to only code 1 hr a day or something on a complicated
project then on vacation for the rest of the day.

?

If your boss doesn't mind, that's still lower risk than chronic overtime.
With your system the schedule will also go long, but at least bugs won't
accumulate.
Well, tell that to their bosses ;)

Uh, there are serious movements afoot to do so. The "EAspouse" blog
resonated with a lot of programmers, even outside the game industry.
Enforcing overtime (even via the subtle channels of rewarding chronic
overtimers without actually setting a policy) is immoral, almost illegal,
unethical, and very bad for the technology.

Some bosses get that. The rest will learn it, either from their own
programmers, or from the competition.
 
G

Grahamo

Dear amanda,

"Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?
"

I am delighted you ask this question. In fact, not a lot of
(non-programmer) people are aware of the life of a typical software
engineer, so I'll take the time to enlighten you.

As a programmer robot, our day is actually defined by a series of
routines, or "subroutines" to us programmer types. It varies from
robot to robot (or should I say programmer to programmer) but the
underlying pattern is the same.

Subroutine_compubyte_2a_nanopixel_usb_part1:

I wake up every morning to a cup of metal bolts and warm castol oil, it
limbers me up nicely. The castrol oil is essential so all my movable
joints stay in shape and it also helps to prevent corrusion. Once I've
oiled my nuts and tightened any loose fitting hinges, I like to take a
quick grease shower. It's immensley refreshing to start the day like
that before heading off to the lab. Once I've meticulously completed
this initial morning routine my code process execution flow allows me
to proceed the pre-departure subroutine.


Subroutine_compubyte_2a_nanopixel_usb_part2:
This subroutine is second in the day an essentially dictates how I
leave the house and engage in the transportation process to work, it
begins the moment I secure the private tokenised security algorithm on
my lower port B docking subnet. (locked the front door). Once that has
completed and the I'm secure in my mind that the motherboard lockout
module has completed I am ready to engage the hoverboard quasi
transpo-vector process. This involves my activating the motor reel on
my chevretron X234.rr1. I am guaranteed delivery to my laboratory
destination within 15 minutes under normal operating conditions. The
chevretron X234.rr1 is the transport model of choice for us robot
programmers and we are entitled to free upgrades every 8 years.

subroutine_alpha_argv_psp_box_datacom_1s1aaa.rr65
This is the third part of my day and begins once I've stepped out of my
chevretron X234.rr1 transporter. It activates the "at work" environment
which is pre-programmed into all robots. It's the special module we
programmers use to communicate and work throughout the day. In essence
it's basically a secret encoding mechanism that protects programmers
from other non-programmer types. It allows us to communicate using
strange words and it also allows us to identify non-programmer robots.
For example have you ever been in a scenario where you've heard
somebody say things like;

"Hi alf, I'm getting bit hard by a classic dreaded diamond scenario.
It's a polymorphic nightmare and I'm considering a total refactor. With
any luck the recompile won't instantiate too many templates and my
relink time will be minimal"

"Ah Victor, long time no see. Yeah, I'd go for the refactor option, why
not consider another 3GL and protect yourself via interfaces?"

If yes, then you've actually been in the company of programmer robots.
There is no need to worry, simply observe. Don't try to understand or
they (might) turn nasty.

Similarly has anybody ever asked you;

"Hey Amanda, know where I can download the latest JRE?"

If yes, then you've been probed by a programmer robot. Nothing to be
afraid of really, they were just checking to see if you were a robot
programmer or not. ButI digress. Anyways, once
subroutine_alpha_argv_psp_box_datacom_1s1aaa.rr65 has been initialised
and I'm in my work environment, I proceed to my docking station. Each
programmer robot has a unique computer programming environment that is
unique. Once at their programming environment the programmer robot
starts programming. This entails using a bizarre sequence of numbers,
characters and special keys on their keyboard that is understood by
nobody outside the robot world. Each robot has their favourite set of
these numbers, keys and characters and they even mean different things
on different computers. On top of that these special keys and
characters are constantly changing. That means that no matter how much
a programmer robot knows, he never knows it ALL. He is constantly using
these special keys and characters and learning about new ones. The more
new ones he learns, the more are created. There is an INFINITE supply
of other robots that are constantly creating new keys and special
characters that robots need to learn. It's a constant cycle that never
changes and is to conintue for infinity. Anyways, the programmer robot
does this stuff all day and never tires of it. From time to time a
programmer will blow a transitor or an internal hardware error will
cause him to malfunction. The malfunctions are great fun. It basically
causes the robot-programmer to turn into a normal "human being" for a
while. By this I mean, he has emotions and senses and feelings, just
like a human. The robot programmer when malfunctioning, will enter a
rage. The rage is all consuming and is completely out of his control.
It consumes the robot programmer and he is compelled to seek out the
solution to a puzzle that is an obsession. he becomes fixated by issues
which a normal human would find laughable. For example, imagine
somebody asked you to go to your wardrobe and place your 3 favourite
frocks on your bed. Well you would do just simply that, wouldn't you?
Well a malfunctioning robot programmer cannot do that. He must find out
the "optimal" means of getting to the wardrobe (after he's determined
where is currently is, so he can perform repositioning relative to his
current location). Now once the frocks have been recovered from the
wardrobe (and it's significant to the programmer what type of clothes
container the wardrobe is), he is in a position to select his
favourites and put them on the bed. The malfunctioning programmer will
spend days, hours , even weeks trying to figure out the BEST way of
arranging the frocks on the bed... and he will not give up until the
optimal solution is found.

"Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?
"

I'm too tired to go on........what do you think amanda? How do robots
feel? Do robots have feelings? Or do you mean "feel" in the context of
"grope". How do you feel?

I'm off to the pub now and if things go my way, I'll get lucky and laid
by a scorching blonde in the club tonight. that should answer your
question.

G
 
P

Phlip

amanda992004 said:
But do they?

Some programmers like to play the hero, some get stuck and must work all
night, and some don't know any better.
Are they allowed?

Sewing machine operators are allowed to. Why not programmers?

If you were a boss, what reasons could you give to defend enforced overtime?
 
G

Grahamo

Programmers should go home on time and have a life.
But do they? Are they allowed?

Amanda, I'm stuck here at work, could you please come and get me. My
boss won't let me go home..........

Please AMANDA........come get me!!! I'm on the 25th floor beside the
coffee machine.... QUICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
P

Phlip

Amanda, I'm stuck here at work, could you please come and get me. My
boss won't let me go home..........

Please AMANDA........come get me!!! I'm on the 25th floor beside the
coffee machine.... QUICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amanda, dressed like Robert DeNiro in the movie Brazil, will now rappel thru
your window, sweep you into her arms, put a ULc25 Vice Grip on your belt
buckle, explain to your boss why she or he was wrong to make you work over
time (even if the bugs you were working on were your fault), and then swing
off across the city with you.

Satisfied??
 
V

Victor Bazarov

Phlip said:
Grahamo wrote:

Amanda, I'm stuck here at work, could you please come and get me. My
boss won't let me go home..........

Please AMANDA........come get me!!! I'm on the 25th floor beside the
coffee machine.... QUICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Amanda [..] will now [..] explain to your boss why she or he was wrong [..]

Amanda was wrong? Amanda can be a 'he'? Danger, Will Robinson!
Danger!...
 
A

Alan Balmer

How many hours do you work?

The myth that programmers can or should work more than 8 hours a day is
tragic, and is responsible for an incredible amount of lost productivity,
bugs, etc. (But heck, at least we don't cut off the wrong limb like
overworked doctors do...)

Yes, but programmers have the power to kill more than one person at a
time.
 
A

amanda992004

The original poster reported "feeling like a robot", which is a clear sign of sleep deprivation.

My sleep depravation is not from not staying in bed; I just don't sleep
well and hence require longer hours to stay in bed to feel rested.
Being in school, sleep deprivation is a routine as I must finish
homework, project. Feel like a robot and I am wondering thinking that
with "I need to learn this", "I need to lean that", when will I ever
not be like a robot?

Wondering whether I should use my previous degree/education (Chemistry)
and get into teaching (it would be part-time at a college as I am doing
now unless I work at multiple college teaching different courses to get
full time hours which is not appealing to me OR teach high school which
I don't want to do at this point in my life) and have some sort of a
life

or

stick with programming and get into the field. I have become interested
in bioinformatics and talked with someone from the field. Needless to
say, I need to make time to study Molecular Biology (will not go to
Bioinformatics degree program) which does take time though I prefer to
spend time building my programming skills (in scripting - Perl is the
langauge inthat area - or Database (would require high level skills
and I am nowhere near that yet) ).

Currently, I am taking Data structure (using C++). Have taken Java
acouple of years ago. So thinking about spending time on the things I
need to learn makes me feel like I will live have to like a robot.

I ended up posting this in C++ group because I was looking for the C++
question I posted a few days ago. Can't find it but problem is solved.
 
D

Default User

Excluding the factors of the brain capability, i.e I am not asking
about this factor, if you are a single, aside from enjoying coding or
debugging, how do you make time to eat properly, i.e healthily w/o
spending big bucks at special healthy food places and also take care
of life's daily chores w/o feeling like a robot. Any time for social
activites with people other than programmers?

Is feeling like a robot a typical description of a programmer's life?


Don't feed the trolls, blah blah blah.




Brian
 

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