Java Programmer Certification and Logo

  • Thread starter Screamin Lord Byron
  • Start date

S

Screamin Lord Byron

Hi,

Is there anyone here who passed Oracle branded equivalent to SCJP? That
is, after the 1st of September this year. I would like to use the logo
in my resume, but I can't download it from the CertView page. I
understand that I must agree with the logo usage terms by accepting a
form on the webpage, but Cert Manager says that there is no available
forms whatsoever. Anyone managed to download the logo? Or could it be
that there is still no Oracle branded logo for the Java SE Programmer
certification?

I've asked Oracle, but the autoresponse message said I will probably
have to wait for 5 business days to get a response, so I'm asking here
in hope to find someone who already knows the answer. I couldn't find
any on the web.

I'm not from USA or Canada. There was once a policy that only US and
Canadian citizens were able to accept the terms electronically, but that
was probably long time ago, since I know some people outside of US and
Canada who recently did it this way. That was still for the Sun branded
logo, though.

Thanks.
 
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K

Kevin McMurtrie

Screamin Lord Byron said:
Hi,

Is there anyone here who passed Oracle branded equivalent to SCJP? That
is, after the 1st of September this year. I would like to use the logo
in my resume, but I can't download it from the CertView page. I
understand that I must agree with the logo usage terms by accepting a
form on the webpage, but Cert Manager says that there is no available
forms whatsoever. Anyone managed to download the logo? Or could it be
that there is still no Oracle branded logo for the Java SE Programmer
certification?

I've asked Oracle, but the autoresponse message said I will probably
have to wait for 5 business days to get a response, so I'm asking here
in hope to find someone who already knows the answer. I couldn't find
any on the web.

I'm not from USA or Canada. There was once a policy that only US and
Canadian citizens were able to accept the terms electronically, but that
was probably long time ago, since I know some people outside of US and
Canada who recently did it this way. That was still for the Sun branded
logo, though.

Thanks.

I've never heard of anyone in Silicon Valley asking for Sun Java
certification. In fact, my colleagues and I noticed a moderate
correlation between certifications on resumes and applicants with poor
understanding of programming fundamentals. Are the certifications more
valued elsewhere?
 
M

Martin Gregorie

I've never heard of anyone in Silicon Valley asking for Sun Java
certification. In fact, my colleagues and I noticed a moderate
correlation between certifications on resumes and applicants with poor
understanding of programming fundamentals. Are the certifications more
valued elsewhere?
Some years ago some colleagues, all of us experienced C programmers, and
I took a Sun-provided and presented Java course - about 3-4 days IIRC.
Speaking entirely for myself, I didn't learn enough from the course to
write Java: that came after I bought a book and worked through it. I've
taken much better courses on other programming languages in the past.

So, if my experience is any guide, I'd guess the SCJP is just about worth
the cost of the paper its printed on.
 
L

Lew

Martin said:
Some years ago some colleagues, all of us experienced C programmers, and
I took a Sun-provided and presented Java course - about 3-4 days IIRC.
Speaking entirely for myself, I didn't learn enough from the course to
write Java: that came after I bought a book and worked through it. I've
taken much better courses on other programming languages in the past.

So, if my experience is any guide, I'd guess the SCJP is just about worth
the cost of the paper its printed on.

And you've looked at sample tests to determine if your assessment of one
course correlates well to tests (not courses) produced by a different division?

I don't see how your experience can be any kind of guide.

I haven't taken the certification tests, but the sample tests I have seen do
thoroughly exercise your knowledge of Java's rules. I've learned good stuff
by studying what I couldn't answer well on the sample tests.

Obviously such a test can't prove if one is a good programmer, but it can
prove if one remembers the rules of the language, and to an extent if one can
reason from that knowledge.
 
A

Arved Sandstrom

Lew said:
And you've looked at sample tests to determine if your assessment of
one course correlates well to tests (not courses) produced by a
different division?
I don't see how your experience can be any kind of guide.

I haven't taken the certification tests, but the sample tests I have
seen do thoroughly exercise your knowledge of Java's rules. I've
learned good stuff by studying what I couldn't answer well on the
sample tests.
Obviously such a test can't prove if one is a good programmer, but it
can prove if one remembers the rules of the language, and to an
extent if one can reason from that knowledge.

And the point is, the OP already has the damned thing. I'm pretty sure he
didn't need an in-depth analysis of how useless it is, he just wanted a
proper logo to go with it, and needs help to figure out where to get it now.

AHS
 
S

Screamin Lord Byron

And the point is, the OP already has the damned thing. I'm pretty sure he
didn't need an in-depth analysis of how useless it is, he just wanted a
proper logo to go with it, and needs help to figure out where to get it now.

Thanks, Arved. That was exactly the point of my post. But now, since the
topic expanded, I would like to say a few words about that other stuff.

Everything Lew said is true. The purpose of the programmer level of Java
certification isn't to prove that someone is a good programmer (somewhat
ironically), but I also think it does prove that one who passed it has a
good understanding of Java's rules.

In reply to Martin, it is highly unlikely (if not impossible) that
someone can pass this exam based on the knowledge acquired from a 4-days
course. I've taken a 180 hours of Java training over 6 months and still
didn't have the full confidence to take the exam. My scores were only
about 50% to 60% on mock-up tests at that time (58% is a passing score
on a real exam). I've concentrated on my weak points after that for
additional 3 months. Only then I was finally confident enough to take
the formal exam. I've got 93% of correct answers on it, which I think
isn't bad at all. And what is more important, during that process, my
Java skills were vastly improved and I've learned a lot of good stuff,
as Lew put it.

So, to summarize. I think the purpose of the exam isn't the paper you
get. Its purpose is to acquire good understanding of the Java language
(and the most commonly used portions of the Java API). At least that was
my goal. The paper is just a way to show it before you actually
demonstrate it. What that means is to increase your chances to get
selected for a job interview and not be discarded at the first tier of
the applicant selection process, especially if you have none of formal
Java experience so far. For example, all of my job experience was
involving C programming with one very obscure embedded system. In my
country, if an employer wants Java, they usually don't want candidates
without the word Java appearing somewhere in their resumes, no matter
what their actual programming experience may be. The Java Certified
Programmer logo looks much better, though. :)
 
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A

Arne Vajhøj

So, to summarize. I think the purpose of the exam isn't the paper you
get. Its purpose is to acquire good understanding of the Java language
(and the most commonly used portions of the Java API). At least that was
my goal.

It is very common for certifications that there are two categories
taking them:
A) those that want to learn the topic
B) those that just want the paper

Not surprisingly the A group learn more than the B group!
> The paper is just a way to show it before you actually
demonstrate it. What that means is to increase your chances to get
selected for a job interview and not be discarded at the first tier of
the applicant selection process, especially if you have none of formal
Java experience so far. For example, all of my job experience was
involving C programming with one very obscure embedded system. In my
country, if an employer wants Java, they usually don't want candidates
without the word Java appearing somewhere in their resumes, no matter
what their actual programming experience may be. The Java Certified
Programmer logo looks much better, though. :)

Standard problem with HR. Because the person doing the selection
actually doesn't know any of the technologies, then it becomes
pure keyword matching.

Arne
 
S

Screamin Lord Byron

volis slikice? ;)

It's funny. You've translated your nickname to English, but not the
contents of your post. Of course I like pictures. Everybody likes pictures.
 
W

Wojtek

Arne Vajhøj wrote :
Standard problem with HR. Because the person doing the selection
actually doesn't know any of the technologies, then it becomes
pure keyword matching.

Requirement: Java 1.4

My knowledge: Java 1.6

HR, sorry you do not know the required language. Rejected.
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Arne Vajhøj wrote :

Requirement: Java 1.4

My knowledge: Java 1.6

HR, sorry you do not know the required language. Rejected.

I am afraid that it could happen!

Arne
 
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K

Kevin McMurtrie

[QUOTE="Wojtek said:
Standard problem with HR. Because the person doing the selection
actually doesn't know any of the technologies, then it becomes
pure keyword matching.

Requirement: Java 1.4

My knowledge: Java 1.6

HR, sorry you do not know the required language. Rejected.[/QUOTE]

But that's 14.3 percent better!

Getting rejected that way is just fine. You really don't want to work
with the people who thrive in a badly broken system.
 
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A

Arne Vajhøj

[QUOTE="Wojtek said:
Standard problem with HR. Because the person doing the selection
actually doesn't know any of the technologies, then it becomes
pure keyword matching.

Requirement: Java 1.4

My knowledge: Java 1.6

HR, sorry you do not know the required language. Rejected.

But that's 14.3 percent better!

Getting rejected that way is just fine. You really don't want to work
with the people who thrive in a badly broken system.[/QUOTE]

It just say that HR is broken. The software development team
can still be fine.

Arne
 

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