JavaScript (tm) hoax

V

VK

I got really wondered with the recent fuss about "JavaScript is
terribly copyrighted, the language is called ECMAScript from now on,
and further".

First of all yes, JAVASCRIPT is a registered trademark in the US of
Sun Microsystems, Inc., now a wholly owned subsidiary of Oracle
Corporation. The Mark Drawing Code of the trademark is "Typed
drawing". That means that JavaScript, Javascript, javascript or even
JaVaScRiPt are equally registered trademarks appertaining to Sun
Microsystems, Inc. Other words any typed or drawn sequence of
characters "JAVASCRIPT" in any case or any case mixture.
United States Patent and Trademark Office search:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/

In the EU JAVASCRIPT is still available for registration by any
interested company: unlike JAVA which is trademarked by Oracle
America, Inc.(sic!) for any use in the domains of "computers, computer
hardware, computer peripherals, integrated circuits, computer
software".
OHIM search:
http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/RequestManager/en_SearchBasic

ECMASCRIPT is not trademarked in the US nor in the EU. Yet "ECMA
International" is recently registered in the US, Mark Drawing Code
"Standard Character Mark, no claim is made to the exclusive right to
use 'International' apart from the mark as shown".
It is important that the registration is finished just in April of
2010. Respectively it doesn't have the affidavit SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-
YR)
What does it mean is that within the next 6 years any former "ECMA" or
"ECMA International" trademark user, irrespectively to the current
registration status, can claim his/her priority rights for the
trademark and to get it back or to get a royalty, just like it was
with Firefox a few years ago.
Note: Personally to me the optimum would be some porno studio to claim
these priority rights so to get the Swiss ECMA hell out of the
picture...

Now what are the implications of JAVASCRIPT being a trademark of Sun
Microsystems, Inc.? None. Sun didn't and doesn't develop JavaScript
standards or unified engines obligatory to use by everyone. It cannot
and it doesn't plan to start collecting royalties for each
"JAVASCRIPT" word usage. For that they would need to enforce royalties
to the whole Web, wherever "javascript" is written and/or sent.
The purpose of holding this trademark is the community interest. The
best it is described by PSF for "Python", so I simply quote, just
imagine JavaScript instead of Python:
http://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/
"Trademark law is mainly a way to protect the public, rather than the
trademark holder. This means that uses of trademarks that confuse
consumers -- which in our case would include our developer and user
community, or anyone else who might be likely to use the Python
programming language -- are not permitted under law. As the owner of
the trademark, we must be sure the mark is used properly, so the
community is not confused."
So the trademark is a guarantee that no one will make a derivative of C
++ or BASIC and will start to distribute it under JavaScript name. Or
someone will write a book like "C++ is the king, JavaScript sucks" or
the like. This is a Good Thing(tm).

So why so much of fuss all recently with JavaScript - after 15 years -
being treated nearly as an evil name and ECMAScript being pushed into
all available holes? Because the situation has been changed
dramatically. The "toy language" is the definite winner: and there is
an army of highly upset C++'ers (and a few survived Java'ers) looking
at that.
Their core believes and principals of Doing Right Things In The Only
Right Way are challenged - and instead of fixing it they have to write
optimized engines for that "toy language".
So the medieval Ius primae noctis goes into use: if you cannot
eliminate your enemies then try to absorb them so soon they will be
just a part of yours. If you cannot eliminate JavaScript - just make
it a weird yet acceptable C++ bastard. In this case an enforced name
change is the most effective identity breakout. -JavaScript doesn't
have and doesn't need this and that? -Well, who's talking about
JavaScript? It is ECMAScript, man, here it does.

All above and further is my my own personal opinion - lesser
trademarks status data. Anyone is welcome to agree on it, argue with
it or to ignore it.

From my side I do reserve my rights to:
1) to send to hell any attempts to enforce the "right" term ECMAScript
instead of "wrong" term JavaScript.
2) to send to hell any hoax about the "copyright danger" of using
JavaScript instead of "public domain" ECMAScript.
3) to send to hell and fight with any attempt of making from
JavaScript a C++ bastard. Mozilla or anyone else wants it - let them
do it. They can make ECMAScript or EICHScript or JS#Script in any form
that satisfy them. It is out of any wide community interest. The
community does care about JavaScript as the language of the Web.
4) to put periodical requests to change the language name in the FAQ
to the form corresponding to the group description and the charter. If
it is not done, then remove the word "official" from the FAQ
description. Do not expect it to be done, but periodical requests with
rationale in them at least will inform readers about my view at the
actual situation.
 
J

Joe Nine

VK said:
From my side I do reserve my rights to:
1) to send to hell any attempts to enforce the "right" term ECMAScript
instead of "wrong" term JavaScript.

You'll be busy countering Thomas pointedears daily claims that there is
no javascript :)
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

Joe said:
You'll be busy countering Thomas pointedears daily claims that there is
no javascript :)

"javascript" !== "JavaScript"


HTH & HAND

PointedEars
 
V

VK

"javascript" !== "JavaScript"

Possibly is in some countries. I am not a trademark adviser, I am
(now) a trends calculator. Whatever I know is coming from our time-
share copyright specialists.

As much as the US law is concerned:
'javascript' == 'JavaScript' == 'JAVASCRIPT';
 
D

David Mark

Possibly is in some countries. I am not a trademark adviser, I am
(now) a trends calculator. Whatever I know is coming from our time-
share copyright specialists.

Time shares? There's never been a better time to buy (or sell!) Call
for our free brochure. :)
As much as the US law is concerned:
 'javascript' == 'JavaScript' == 'JAVASCRIPT';

That has nothing to do with accuracy in a technical discussion.
Nobody is worried about TM violations.
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

RobG said:
In the realm of trademarks, I think you'll find that the two are
identical. Capitalisation is irrelevant.

While that may be true, and might even apply to "JavaScript"
(all capitalizations), you miss the point completely.


PointedEars
 
J

Joe Nine

Thomas said:
"javascript" !== "JavaScript"

PointedEars

I'm not subscribed to comp.lang.JavaScript and my script tags don't
specify "JavaScript" either. It's only pedantism and semantics to think
that JavaScript is how it must always be referred to. Sure if you're
writing a book/article/guide/how-to then you'd ensure to case it
correctly. For all other usage, javascript == perfectly acceptable.

There maybe no spoon, but there's certainly a javascript :)
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

Joe said:
I'm not subscribed to comp.lang.JavaScript and my script tags don't
specify "JavaScript" either. It's only pedantism and semantics to think
that JavaScript is how it must always be referred to.

It is a fallacy to assume that this is wanted.
Sure if you're writing a book/article/guide/how-to then you'd ensure to
case it correctly. For all other usage, javascript == perfectly
acceptable.

No, for reasons I have already explained.
There maybe no spoon, but there's certainly a javascript :)

There is one in the heads of its inventors. Unfortunately, that is not what
the rest of the world understands it to be.


PointedEars
 
J

John G Harris

In the realm of trademarks, I think you'll find that the two are
identical. Capitalisation is irrelevant.

On the other hand, the owners of the dBase II trademark got very upset
with anyone who got the capitals in the wrong place.

John
 
V

VK

There is one in the heads of its inventors.  Unfortunately, that is notwhat
the rest of the world understands it to be.

When back in July 1995 Brendan Eich, a 34 years old invited Unix
specialist, set down to write a helper language for Netscape browser
to get the max out of the "thin client" Java concept: back then he
called it "Mocha" to continue the coffee naming concept from Sun. Just
prior the release in September of 1995 it was renamed to "LiveScript"
to sound more dynamic and attractive. Yet after the preliminary
testing is over the language was voluntaristically renamed into
"JavaScript" in November of 1995 because "Java" was a "buzz word" of
the day at that time.
So no, there were not three fairies over the bed of the newborn
language. Only the ugly PR suckers. One wants to get the innocence
name back - call it LiveScript then. or Mocha. Anything else is a pure
politics.
 
J

John G Harris

I got really wondered with the recent fuss about "JavaScript is
terribly copyrighted, the language is called ECMAScript from now on,
and further".
<snip>

There are three major errors in that paragraph.

First, trademarks have nothing to do with copyright. Copyright stops you
copying large chunks of text, film, etc. and selling it without
permission. A trademark says that this product was made by X or by
someone licensed by X to use the mark. (Think MacDonald's)

Second, no-one has asked for it to be called ECMAScript. ECMAScript is
part of the JavaScript language but not all of it, just as it's part of
the JScript language but not all of it. No-one has suggested that
'ECMAScript' should have two meanings in this news group.

Third, 'JavaScript' excludes anything implemented by Microsoft. There
are plenty of people who pretend that Microsoft doesn't exist, but the
comp.lang.* newsgroups can't afford to be so partisan. The fuss, as you
call it, is to find a term that does include things coming from
Microsoft.

John
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

VK said:
Thomas said:
There is one in the heads of its inventors. Unfortunately, that is not
what the rest of the world understands it to be.

When back in July 1995 Brendan Eich, [snip fairytale]

Brendan Eich did not invent (the term) "javascript", he invented JavaScript.
Got it?


PointedEars
 
J

John G Harris

On Sun, 30 May 2010 at 01:15:25, in comp.lang.javascript, VK wrote:

to get the Swiss ECMA hell out of the
picture...

ECMA is foreign! Bad! Wicked! Nuke it!


The "toy language" is the definite winner: and there is
an army of highly upset C++'ers (and a few survived Java'ers) looking
at that.
<snip>

Are you seriously suggesting that ECMAScript is used to build an
operating system ?


John
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

John said:
There are three major errors in that paragraph.

First, trademarks have nothing to do with copyright. Copyright stops you
copying large chunks of text, film, etc. and selling it without
permission.

No, a copyright does not by definition stop one from doing that; instead,
it provides the copyright holder with a means to restrict the *legal*
distribution of the work thus protected.
A trademark says that this product was made by X or by
someone licensed by X to use the mark. (Think MacDonald's)
_McDonald's_

Second, no-one has asked for it to be called ECMAScript.
ACK

ECMAScript is part of the JavaScript language but not all of it, just as
it's part of the JScript language but not all of it.

Utter nonsense.
No-one has suggested that 'ECMAScript' should have two meanings in this
news group.
Correct.

Third, 'JavaScript' excludes anything implemented by Microsoft. There
are plenty of people who pretend that Microsoft doesn't exist, but the
comp.lang.* newsgroups can't afford to be so partisan. The fuss, as you
call it, is to find a term that does include things coming from
Microsoft.

.... and other implementors.


PointedEars
 
R

RobG

On the other hand, the owners of the dBase II trademark got very upset
with anyone who got the capitals in the wrong place.

They would see it as a brand recognition issue, which is different to
trademark. Where a brand is concerned, colours, font and layout are
very important. But that is covered by copyright, not trademark.

A change in capitalisation is considered insufficient to differentiate
trademarks, which is a good thing.
 
J

John G Harris

John G Harris wrote:


Utter nonsense.
<snip>

"ECMAScript can provide core scripting capabilities for a variety of
host environments, and therefore the core scripting language is
specified in this document apart from any particular host environment."

Explain why this appears in the standard. Or do you disagree with it?

John
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

John said:
<snip>

"ECMAScript can provide core scripting capabilities for a variety of
host environments, and therefore the core scripting language is
specified in this document apart from any particular host environment."

Explain why this appears in the standard.

(Polite people say "please".) No, that's a red herring.
Or do you disagree with it?

I am disagreeing with your misinterpretation of it.


PointedEars
 
J

John G Harris

(Polite people say "please".) No, that's a red herring.


I am disagreeing with your misinterpretation of it.


a) "ECMAScript is part of the JavaScript language".

b) "the core scripting language is specified in this document"

Clearly (b) logically implies (a). If you disagree you have to explain
your reasoning otherwise no sensible person will believe you.

John
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

John said:
a) "ECMAScript is part of the JavaScript language".

b) "the core scripting language is specified in this document"

Clearly (b) logically implies (a).

Most certainly it doesn't. Your logic is flawed.
If you disagree you have to explain your reasoning otherwise no sensible
person will believe you.

JavaScript is an implementation of ECMAScript. It implements this Language
Specification, and extends it as the Specification allows. That does not
mean that ECMAScript is a part of JavaScript, that is just nonsense.

If you prefer an analogy, a Ford Mustang is an implementation of the concept
"car" (as in automobile). Most certainly, however, a car is not a part of a
Ford Mustang. The cold-air induction & dual exhaust of the former's 2011
version (not that I am a car addict, the name just came to my mind, and
Google was my friend) corresponds with, say, the Array comprehension and
destructuring assignment of JavaScript (since version 1.7).


HTH

PointedEars
 

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