making the best of situation with Flash intros

[WindAndWaves]

Hi Gurus

Some of my clients use Flash intros on their website (for an example see www.cem.co.nz) . This makes it really hard for Google to
search their website properly. Now I could convince my clients to ditch the flash, but what do you think of the following idea:

1. swap the flash intro to their actual home page (which contains all the right links, keywords, etc..) with a java script that
loads the flash intro over the top (filling the entire screen).

2. flash disappears after the users click "skip intro" or the intro ends.

Has anyone done something like that? Would it work?

Look forward to your ideas

- Nicolaas

 

[Philip Ronan]

Hi Gurus

Some of my clients use Flash intros on their website (for an example see
www.cem.co.nz) . This makes it really hard for Google to
search their website properly. Now I could convince my clients to ditch the
flash,

Definitely a good idea

but what do you think of the following idea:

1. swap the flash intro to their actual home page (which contains all the
right links, keywords, etc..) with a java script that
loads the flash intro over the top (filling the entire screen).

No, don't do that. When a website decides to resize the window to fill the
whole screen, I close it straight away.

Why not just try following the HTML specs? Use an <OBJECT> tag to insert the
Flash (if you REALLY have to), and provide alternative content for browsers
that don't have flash installed (like a "hello"-type image inside a
hyperlink pointing to the main index). That way your clients are happy, the
Googlebot is happy, and the site's visitors are ... well, 2 out of 3 isn't
bad

Take a look at
<http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/objects.html#idx-accessibility-1>

 

[Travis Newbury]

Some of my clients use Flash intros on their website (for an example

see www.cem.co.nz) . This makes it really hard for Google to

search their website properly. Now I could convince my clients to

ditch the flash, but what do you think of the following idea:

The idea sounds like those annoying flash pop-ups that were so popular
about a year ago (and still show their ugly head every now and then)
Your best bet is to convince them to lose the intro.

 

[JDS]

No, don't do that. When a website decides to resize the window to fill the
whole screen, I close it straight away.

Yes, but will the people in his client's target audience close it right
away? Are you the target audience?

 

[BruceB]

Hi Gurus

Some of my clients use Flash intros on their website (for an example see
www.cem.co.nz) . This makes it really hard for Google to
search their website properly. Now I could convince my clients to ditch
the flash, but what do you think of the following idea:

If you can confince them to dump the Flash intro, that's the best solution.
I've found some clients are like dope addicts when it comes to some precious
Flash they paid to produce. Just can't get enough, no matter how
counter-productive it is to the mission of their site.

If they won't do that, maybe a little tiny Flash movie somewhere if they
*must* see movement on the screen..

 

[BruceB]

After having written the above, I took the trouble to look at the Flash you
referred to. Jesus, that's horrible. At least for a corporate image, it
is. Then, having put up with that, there's this obnoxious scrolling stuff
on the page. Or whatever you call that intro sentence that "types" out.
Can you get them to lose that too. Tell them that it can cause seizures in
come people. My only reaction to it is to not read it and just kill the
page.

 

[Andy Dingley]

Yes, but will the people in his client's target audience close it right
away? Are you the target audience?

"It's a good idea to piss my customers off randomly,
because I don't do it to all of them"

 

[Duende]

While sitting in a puddle Andy Dingley scribbled in the mud:

"It's a good idea to piss my customers off randomly,
because I don't do it to all of them"

Must save for my random quotes.

 

[Bernhard Sturm]

1. swap the flash intro to their actual home page (which contains

all the right links, keywords, etc..) with a java script that

loads the flash intro over the top (filling the entire screen).

nooo... just dumb the flash thingy. It's no longer a waste of bandwith
but you will waste your potential customers, audiance, clients, .......
(fill in the appropriate). I always get annoyed with a flash intro, I
want the content. Fast. The web is not televison, and has nothing to do
with MTV.

2. flash disappears after the users click "skip intro" or the intro ends.

just cut it. Someone suggested to have the flash 'intro' burried within
the site, which I would say is a good idea. Leave your audiance the
choice: if they want to see it moving and zooming and tweening (I
haven't seen any intro which would go beyond those primitives), then let
them choose it. But don't force it upon them.

Generally speaking flash-intros are like frames: useless

HTH
bernhard

 

[Travis Newbury]

WindAndWaves wrote:
nooo... just dumb the flash thingy. It's no longer a waste of bandwith
but you will waste your potential customers, audiance, clients, ........
(fill in the appropriate). I always get annoyed with a flash intro, I

want the content. Fast. The web is not televison, and has nothing to do
with MTV.

I agree with your dislike for a flash or any other kind of intro.
However, I disagree with the web is not like TV. Maybe the web YOU
like is not like TV, but the web I like is VERY much like TV. Kind of
that "different strokes" thing.

Generally speaking flash-intros are like frames: useless

Yep.

 

[Bernhard Sturm]

I agree with your dislike for a flash or any other kind of intro.
However, I disagree with the web is not like TV. Maybe the web YOU
like is not like TV, but the web I like is VERY much like TV. Kind of
that "different strokes" thing.

I don't know how you experience TV, but in my case: I just watch and
from time to time I zap around. I would call this a push-experience. My
web experiences are a bit different (they are more sort of a
pull-experience)

 

[JDS]

"It's a good idea to piss my customers off randomly, because I don't
do it to all of them"

Right, I get your point, but it sometimes seems like the "pros" that lurk
in this newsgroup miss some important points that go beyond the technical
details of producing valid code. And I think that target audience is a
detail that is overlooked sometimes.

I also think that "content is king" is often forgotten. Just sticking that
in there.

 

[WindAndWaves]

Hi Gurus

Some of my clients use Flash intros on their website (for an example see www.cem.co.nz) . This makes it really hard for Google to
search their website properly. Now I could convince my clients to ditch the flash, but what do you think of the following idea:

1. swap the flash intro to their actual home page (which contains all the right links, keywords, etc..) with a java script that
loads the flash intro over the top (filling the entire screen).

2. flash disappears after the users click "skip intro" or the intro ends.

Has anyone done something like that? Would it work?

Look forward to your ideas

- Nicolaas

Hey Kids

Thank you all for your comments.... I knew you were going to say "just ditch the flash". But you also pointed out that companies
often have a hard time parting with it.

I think, not for you but for the average user, flash is kind of like having a big Neon Sign. Not in the way that it attracts
people, but in the way of saying: hey, if they have something that flash they must take their business serious and invest in it.

Anyone can put up a page, but making it as loud and ugly as flash really goes to show that they are "big business".

Anyway... I am still interested in the combo with google and the like.

Take a site like www.ysl.com I think it is their business to look flashy... now will google find them or how would they go about
that?

Thanks again for your enlightening answers...


- Nicolaas

 

[BruceB]

Thank you all for your comments.... I knew you were going to say "just

ditch the flash". But you also pointed out that companies
often have a hard time parting with it.

I think, not for you but for the average user, flash is kind of like
having a big Neon Sign. Not in the way that it attracts
people, but in the way of saying: hey, if they have something that flash
they must take their business serious and invest in it.

You really don't get it, do you.... You might go back and read all the
posts..

 

[Travis Newbury]

Yes, but will the people in his client's target audience close it right
away? Are you the target audience?

Most here do not buy into the "target audience" idea. I personally do,
because I fall into one of the categories targeted by many companies.
The currently accepted view is that if you open your site to everyone,
rather than target the people that are likely to buy your product, you
will win in the end because more people will be able to use your site,
and more people must equal more sales.

YMMV

 

[Travis Newbury]

I don't know how you experience TV, but in my case: I just watch and
from time to time I zap around. I would call this a push-experience. My
web experiences are a bit different (they are more sort of a
pull-experience)

I am a channel flipper. In the length of 2 commercials I can zoom
through 132 channels and know if there is anything else I might want to
watch. Then I play games with my kids. Now for the Internet, I jump
around from site to site stopping to read this article or that or watch
a flash interactive demo, or watch some video clips from a news site or
a movie from one of the indi film sites. Then I play games with my
kids. Yep, they are the same.

 

[WindAndWaves]

You really don't get it, do you.... You might go back and read all the
posts..

You are cute! I read them and I get it - I hope. I did not read a single piece of evidence (apart from I don't like it) that shows
that flash turns customers away. Just have a look at, for example, www.ysl.com. You might not like the site, but I think it suits
the company.

Anyway, my question was how to retain a flash (because the client or more important - the marketing manager - who on the whole knows
a lot more about marketing than an html coder) front and also get google engaged. I was just wondering how different people dealt
with this scenario and I think I got the answer.

Thank you for your cute reply.

- Nicolaas

 

[Bernhard Sturm]

Bernhard Sturm wrote:
I am a channel flipper. In the length of 2 commercials I can zoom
through 132 channels and know if there is anything else I might want to
watch. Then I play games with my kids. Now for the Internet, I jump
around from site to site stopping to read this article or that or watch
a flash interactive demo, or watch some video clips from a news site or
a movie from one of the indi film sites. Then I play games with my
kids. Yep, they are the same.

okay... I look definitely different at the internet. Just from a content
point of view: content via internet is being pulled by you, you can
interact with the content in many ways (have your own RSS feeds, do HTML
chats, booking flights, read PDFs, check directory information (phone
numbers), look up the timetables of the trains, calculate car routing
information, check your mails...) It's you who asks for the content, and
the way this content is being delieverd to your home.
TV is way different: the content is pushed to you. The only choice you
have is: switch channels or turn the set off. IMHO this is not very
interactive
but I can see that in the future TV will melt together with some
internet applications. Some channels try already to enrich their shows
with sort of enhanced interaction: SMS voting, shopping channel,
telephone game shows... I believe they copied this from the web

 

[Travis Newbury]

...Yep, they are the same.
okay... I look definitely different at the internet.

I have no problems with others using the Internet differently than I do.
And they can do what ever they want on their pages. If I happen to
like the page (or can even read it) then I win. If not I go to a
different page that does work or looks like I want it to, and I still
win. The Internet is very large with a lot of different kinds of people
using it. The companies and schools that use my company's products,
which are Internet, intranet, and DC based learning tools (ironic eh?),
could care less is EVERYONE can see the applications. They only care
that their students can see them. So the product works for the masses,
not for everyone.

Then there are things like Webex. There are very specific requirements
you use it. But people buy the service because they see it as a value.

Just from a content
point of view: content via internet is being pulled by you, you can
interact with the content in many ways (have your own RSS feeds, do HTML
chats, booking flights, read PDFs, check directory information (phone
numbers), look up the timetables of the trains, calculate car routing
information, check your mails...) It's you who asks for the content, and
the way this content is being delieverd to your home.
TV is way different: the content is pushed to you. The only choice you
have is: switch channels or turn the set off. IMHO this is not very
interactive

I see them exactly the same. A web page is nothing more than commercial
or a tv show. Your mouse the "clicker" You are doing nothing more on
most sites than choosing channels off channel links. The content on
that channel (page) is being pushed at you. You simply have a better
selection tool than a simple tv remote.

but I can see that in the future TV will melt together with some
internet applications.

That future has already started. Companies like mine are on the leading
edge of melding the two. And that's the kind of web site I like.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Just have a look at, for example, www.ysl.com. You might not like
the site, but I think it suits the company.

...if they don't want very many visitors...

Tries to play this:
http://www.ysl.com/home_felix.swf

Opens up with "YvesSaintLaurent" on the left of a black background.
There is a (apparently) clickable language choice under that.

Clicking does nothing. Worthless site.

Win2K, both IE 6 and Firefox 1.0, Flash On, JavaScript On.

Oh, strangely enough, it works in Opera (7.54), but the first thing it
does is blow open a new full-screen window, much larger than my
browser. MOST annoying. Once running, it is still virtually useless,
hardly any content at all.