proper name for "comes out in the wash"

[Roedy Green]

I have always used the phrase "comes out in the wash" for a
programming simplicity principle. Surely it also has a grander
academic name. What is it?

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/comeout.html

I learned it from Harry Cullis, my high school physics teacher. He was
from England, so possibly is a regional phrase.

 

[zero]

I have always used the phrase "comes out in the wash" for a
programming simplicity principle. Surely it also has a grander
academic name. What is it?

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/comeout.html

I learned it from Harry Cullis, my high school physics teacher. He was
from England, so possibly is a regional phrase.

the trivial case?

 

[Eric Sosman]

Roedy Green wrote On 02/21/06 11:10,:

I have always used the phrase "comes out in the wash" for a
programming simplicity principle. Surely it also has a grander
academic name. What is it?

Serendipity, happenstance, foresight, good design, ...

 

[Richard F.L.R.Snashall]

I have always used the phrase "comes out in the wash" for a
programming simplicity principle. Surely it also has a grander
academic name. What is it?

redundant? superfluous? optional?

 

[Rajah]

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/comeout.htmlWhen I read the description at this site, it reminded me of the way
factorial worked.
n! is n x (n-1) x ... x 2 x 1.
Of course, 4! is calculated with 4 x 3 x 2 x 1. And 1! is just 1.

But what about 0! (which is also 1)?

Most programmers who understood factorial would "special case" 0. But
someone who understood the problem well might write code to make it
"come out in the wash."

In this sense, I might use the word "elegant" A less-elegant phrase
might be "side effect of the algorithm."

 

[Chris Uppal]

I have always used the phrase "comes out in the wash" for a
programming simplicity principle.

FWIW, the meaning you ascribe to "comes out in the wash" is not the one
I grew up with (I'm British). For me the phrase is usually "it'll come
out in the wash" or "it'll all come all out in the wash", and means
that we'll find out whether <something> is really a good idea when we
apply
it in the real world. (Compare "the proof of the pudding is in the
eating"). For instance:

A) "I've nailed up all those bookshelves. They seem pretty solid, but
books are /heavy/ do you think they'll stand the strain ?"
B) "Dunno. They /ought/ to. It'll come out in the wash."

or:

A) "The <X> party claims that it's all for environmental protection;
I bet they'll back off quick if they ever get into power."

Surely it also has a grander academic name. What is it?

Referring to your meaning of the phrase, I'd say it is either a
property of the algorithm that it does not require special cases
("elegant", "simple") or a property of the /expression/ of that
algorithm that it manages to bury the special cases in main-line code
("clever", "cunning", "brittle"). There are intermediate cases too, of
course.

Another phrase -- not academic -- that I hear used for code that turns
out to accommodate not-obviously-anticipated demands is "it just works"
(or, more ironically: "it Just Works(tm)").

-- chris

 

[Ian Pilcher]

Another phrase -- not academic -- that I hear used for code that turns
out to accommodate not-obviously-anticipated demands is "it just works"
(or, more ironically: "it Just Works(tm)").

Dumb luck?

 

[trippy]

FWIW, the meaning you ascribe to "comes out in the wash" is not the one
I grew up with (I'm British). For me the phrase is usually "it'll come
out in the wash" or "it'll all come all out in the wash", and means
that we'll find out whether <something> is really a good idea when we
apply
it in the real world. (Compare "the proof of the pudding is in the
eating"). For instance:

A) "I've nailed up all those bookshelves. They seem pretty solid, but
books are /heavy/ do you think they'll stand the strain ?"
B) "Dunno. They /ought/ to. It'll come out in the wash."

or:

A) "The <X> party claims that it's all for environmental protection;
I bet they'll back off quick if they ever get into power."


Referring to your meaning of the phrase, I'd say it is either a
property of the algorithm that it does not require special cases
("elegant", "simple") or a property of the /expression/ of that
algorithm that it manages to bury the special cases in main-line code
("clever", "cunning", "brittle"). There are intermediate cases too, of
course.

Another phrase -- not academic -- that I hear used for code that turns
out to accommodate not-obviously-anticipated demands is "it just works"
(or, more ironically: "it Just Works(tm)").

-- chris

I use "comes out in the wash" this way too.

--
trippy
mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM

NP: "I Am The Law" -- Anthrax

"Now, technology's getting better all the time and that's fine,
but most of the time all you need is a stick of gum, a pocketknife,
and a smile."

-- Robert Redford "Spy Game"

 

[Mike Schilling]

I have always used the phrase "comes out in the wash" for a
programming simplicity principle. Surely it also has a grander
academic name. What is it?

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/comeout.html

I learned it from Harry Cullis, my high school physics teacher. He was
from England, so possibly is a regional phrase.

Note that this is often a property of a data structure, not an algoruthm per
se. For instance, using a head node with a linked list obviates code that
handles the oddball "empty list" cases.

 

[Nigel Wade]

I have always used the phrase "comes out in the wash" for a
programming simplicity principle. Surely it also has a grander
academic name. What is it?

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/comeout.html

I learned it from Harry Cullis, my high school physics teacher. He was
from England, so possibly is a regional phrase.

"It'll all come out in the wash" generally refers to the robustness of a
principle, design or construct. You test the fastness of a dye by washing it.
If it comes out in the wash it wasn't fast and hence is either poor in itself
or poor in its application. Similarly in Physics you may test a hypothesis by
experimentation. If your hypothesis comes out in the wash it's failed.

So "come out in the wash" is a test of fitness by demonstration rather than a
rigorous proof of concept/design. I.e. test it (wash it) and see if it works
(did it hold up?).

Call it experimentation, beta testing...

 

[bugbear]

Referring to your meaning of the phrase, I'd say it is either a
property of the algorithm that it does not require special cases
("elegant", "simple") or a property of the /expression/ of that
algorithm that it manages to bury the special cases in main-line code
("clever", "cunning", "brittle"). There are intermediate cases too, of
course.

Yes - I tend to use it when when carefully designed
and coded primitives combine to give the correct
(emergent?) behaviour for all the special cases.

BugBear

 

[JavaEnquirer]

"Comes out in the wash" as far as I'm concerned refers to when a
problem or "thing" naturally emerges as the result of a process e.g.
the concelaed truth that underlies a scandal may be said to eventaully
"come out in the wash", or a coin left in your trousers may come out in
the wash. I'd have never have used it in a programming context. Hmmm...
interesting...

I don't think its specifically a regional English phrase either. I'm
British ( but not English ) and it seems to be in common, everyday use
in Britain, not just parts of England.

 

[trippy]

JavaEnquirer took the hamburger, threw it on the grill, and I said "Oh
wow"...

"Comes out in the wash" as far as I'm concerned refers to when a
problem or "thing" naturally emerges as the result of a process e.g.
the concelaed truth that underlies a scandal may be said to eventaully
"come out in the wash", or a coin left in your trousers may come out in
the wash. I'd have never have used it in a programming context. Hmmm...
interesting...

I don't think its specifically a regional English phrase either. I'm
British ( but not English ) and it seems to be in common, everyday use
in Britain, not just parts of England.

It's used here in the midwest too. (USA)

--
trippy
mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM

NP: "Dear Mr. President" -- 4 Non Blondes

"Now, technology's getting better all the time and that's fine,
but most of the time all you need is a stick of gum, a pocketknife,
and a smile."

-- Robert Redford "Spy Game"

 

[Roedy Green]

I have always used the phrase "comes out in the wash" for a
programming simplicity principle. Surely it also has a grander
academic name. What is it?

I have added a paragraph on etymology speculation that goes like this.
If anyone is offended or feels their point is misrepresented, please
submit your replacement wording. If you want credit with your name,
let me know. http://mindprod.com/jgloss/comeout.html




I can only speculate on the etymology. It may be that a general
washing cleans away individual stains. It may refer to robustness, a
dye that is colourfast to repeated washings. One Brit told me the
phrase means that we'll find out whether something is really a good
idea when we apply it in the real world, the way you find out how well
made your new clothes are the first time you wash them. Another
assured me the phrase refers to when a problem or “thing” naturally
emerges as the result of a process e.g. the concealed truth that
underlies a scandal may be said to eventually “come out in the wash”,
or a coin left in your trousers may come out in the wash.