Some advice for an HTML novice please

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Gordon Levi, Dec 6, 2013.

  1. Gordon Levi

    Gordon Levi Guest

    A friend is currently constructing his own web site. He programs
    process control computers for a living so he is not going to have
    trouble understanding CSS and HTML. I would like to point him to a
    short document that explains the basics and prevents him making the
    classic errors. Any suggestions?
    Gordon Levi, Dec 6, 2013
    1. Advertisements

  2. Gordon Levi

    j Guest

    I'm not the best source for these, but I have few to get started.Yukka has this:

    Which explains in some technical detail some of the whys and why not.

    The ultimate reference is here:

    I've found the info here to be good,although I have never looked through
    the site. Just when I hit a Google reference to there that the info is good:

    I don't have a reference to Dorayme's work, but she has a lot on floats
    and many other topics. Dorayme?

    Just because you find your html/css works doesn't mean it will work in
    another browser. This is the resource for that:

    You'll find a lot of references to W3 Schools. Unfortunately there is a
    lot of bad information there. Stay away.

    Certainly there are others...

    j, Dec 6, 2013
    1. Advertisements

  3. Did your friend consider using a content management system for this purpose?
    Christoph Michael Becker, Dec 6, 2013
  4. Gordon Levi

    dorayme Guest

    You talking to me?

    I am dorayme, if I ever get my hands on Dorayme, I will ... I will ...
    O... I dunno... have a drink with it maybe and tell it to bugger off
    and stop confusing folks. <g>

    Just a few random thoughts:

    I have a piece on floats at


    And as for other bits and pieces, best I can do for now is:


    But mostly, I would not recommend any of my stuff to someone just
    starting out. About floats, it is probably a good idea for a beginner
    to see what he can do without floats for a while.

    In fact, I would recommend getting to see how much the beginner can do
    with some basic HTML:

    Block elements: headings (H1, 2, 3...), paragraphs, DIVS, UL and OL

    Inline elements: SPAN, IMG

    And some basic CSS: paddings, margins, borders, colors, backgrounds.

    And some general overall things about how to link CSS to HTML docs,
    the importance of a doctype to avoid quirks.

    Best to stay away from *positioning* (e.g. position: absolute;) for a
    while. In fact, stay away from things out of the normal HTML flow.
    When limitations are felt, this is the time to learn more things, when
    there is hunger, the new appetite will cause a resolve of the spirit.
    dorayme, Dec 7, 2013
  5. Gordon Levi

    Gordon Levi Guest

    No. Should he? It's a simple site with a few pages describing what his
    one-person company does, his qualifications and experience and how to
    contact the company.
    Gordon Levi, Dec 7, 2013
  6. Gordon Levi

    Gus Richter Guest

    Perhaps this will help:

    Gus Richter, Dec 7, 2013
  7. Gordon Levi

    Tim W Guest

    He totally should. If I am making a site of more than a single page then
    I use a Content Management System. This is why:

    If you can work an ftp program you can set up a CMS in five minutes.
    Cost is nil
    Knowledge of css and html is not necessary (but an advantage)
    It's quicker and easier to theme a cms than to adapt an html template.
    Future maintenance and editing is a cinch.
    Upgrading the design in the future is a cinch
    You will get ready-made plugin stuff like forms and slideshows
    Backups are a cinch
    Organising pages on nav menus is a cinch
    You will get a much better site.

    Wordpress is obviously popular but I would recommend GetSimple CMS as
    the best quick, easy, and lite system. there's also CMSimple and Pluck
    CMS used to be good but I think is abandoned now.

    It has nothing to do with the number of pages. A CMS is just the
    sensible way to run any site these days.

    Tim W
    Tim W, Dec 7, 2013
  8. Gordon Levi

    Tim W Guest

    And a link for your mate:

    Tim W, Dec 7, 2013
  9. Gordon Levi

    j Guest

    I'd say so, getting ready to do something (setting up a CMS) shouldn't
    take longer than doing it (having a web page).
    You must have some kind of server processing? Otherwise adjusting the
    template or navigation would be a bitch.

    I've seen sites that have grown and the changes never get migrated
    through. That is where a CMS helps.

    j, Dec 8, 2013
  10. Gordon Levi

    se Guest

    In case you don't know:
    In IE6 your table based drop down has a flaw. Menu-cell background-team
    are layered above text so to hide it.

    se, Dec 9, 2013
  11. Gordon Levi

    j Guest

    He probably doesn't know, I didn't.

    Although there is a lot of IE6 out there, few of us see it unless we use
    something like

    How is it that you have IE6? Not so easy to run two versions of IE on a
    single OS.

    I gave up on IE6 a year or so ago. I even took out the easy hacks like
    PNG transparency and inline-block. IE6 dates to 2001, which in internet
    years makes it 306. I suppose in Microsoft years that would be 12.

    j, Dec 9, 2013
  12. The "you" is not me but I venture to reply anyway... I have a
    Microsoft- supplied VM that runs IE6. You can get IE6-IE11 in that
    form, if I recall correctly. I rarely check things on IE6 anymore, but
    since the VM is the smallest of the lot so it does not seem worth
    throwing it away just yet.
    Ben Bacarisse, Dec 9, 2013
  13. Gordon Levi

    se Guest

    I've installed XP-mode on win7. A free program from ms. It can
    only be installed on Window 7 -Ultimate and Professional.
    Alternate, as told by Ben, you can install a VM (Virtual Machine).
    Using VM requires an XP with lisence, though. Whereas XP-mode
    has XP build-in to it. XP-mode is not suited as an alternative to a
    real XP-box, as it loads and unloads incredible slow. XP-mode
    comes with IE6 build-in. One have to take care that updates not
    update it to IE8.

    The reason I told "Ed" is because, Stu Nicholls table based drop-down
    is meant as a remedy to the absence of list-hover in older IE-browsers,
    Ed's use of it implies an interest of taking care of the few visitors
    still using IE6. Enthough, perhaps a former interest, that could be gone
    by now. The problem does not relate to the table based menu. It relates
    to IE6. Don't remember, but have a vague memory of setting the
    background-color of the <li> having the team in it, is required to remedy
    a problem of a kind.

    se, Dec 9, 2013

  14. I don't know, but I have MSIE6 on a VirtualBox install of XP and your
    menu fails pretty catastrophically:


    But then again is *IS* MSIE6, how much real effort do you want to waste
    on it?
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 9, 2013
  15. Gordon Levi

    se Guest

    It's not what I first thought. You have some errors in you menu-styles as
    here. Besides those style-errors, you probably forgot to set the color to
    The color is black, a bad contrast to the dark-green image "sig_bg_s.jpg"
    (the last style shown). There possibly are more style-errors than I saw.
    You should look for possibly more. I'm not allowed to attach a screendump.

    /* another hack for IE5.5 */
    * html .menu ul ul {

    /* yet another hack for IE5.5 */
    * html .menu ul ul a, * html .menu ul ul a:visited {

    /* style the third level hover */ ul ul ul a:hover {
    background: #fbf9ef url(/images/sig_bg_s.jpg);
    se, Dec 9, 2013
  16. Nope, your website looks okay in MSIE6. You must have something
    different in your demo page. I didn't have time to check deeper...
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 10, 2013
  17. Gordon Levi

    se Guest

    You got that wrong. I can't imagine that this error in the
    links (<a></a>) of the drop-down menu could possibly
    be displaying in my IE6, and be none existing of another IE6 -
    in your IE6. How can the typos in the websites css-styles
    I posted in my previous post be in conformity with your
    conclusion. Looking at his demo, you posted a screendump
    of, it displays differently from the site-menu. But it is still
    impossible to read the hovered ancher-text in the drop-downs
    listes, because, as can be seen in the last one of my posted
    copies below of styles from the websites menu css-stylesheets,
    the ancher-text needs a color change at hover. And those
    typos in it "t\op:31px; w\idth:128px;" is hardly insignificant.:
    Please check it out.:

    /* another hack for IE5.5 */
    * html .menu ul ul {

    /* yet another hack for IE5.5 */
    * html .menu ul ul a, * html .menu ul ul a:visited {

    /* style the third level hover */ ul ul ul a:hover {
    background: #fbf9ef url(/images/sig_bg_s.jpg);

    se, Dec 10, 2013

  18. Okay first of all those are not typos, but css hacks. Not that I am
    condoning the use of hacks, I don't. Hack always bite you in the end.

    Those hacks rely on different versiona of MSIE did not properly handle
    invalid css rules. A browser is supposed to IGNORE an invalid rule where
    MS incorrectly had IE "overlook" the syntax errors, a sort of "best
    guess auto-correct" and apply the rule where conforming browsers would
    ignore it...
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 10, 2013
  19. Gordon Levi

    se Guest

    Another error shows up in Chrome:
    Borders around the links on some of the last level drop-downs
    disappeares. Not saying it relates to use of hacks.
    None considerable errs, indeed.

    se, Dec 10, 2013
  20. Gordon Levi

    se Guest

    se, Dec 11, 2013
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.