Time for a ruby-announce list?

T

Trans

We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

1) ruby-talk itself would improve

2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
sift

3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

T.
 
H

hemant

We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

1) ruby-talk itself would improve
How?

2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
sift

Again How? Many folks use filtered feed of ruby-talk that just caters
to announcements (rather than subscribing to mailing list).
Announcements are very important part of ruby-talk, moving
announcements to a different list serves little purpose.
3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

Announce away! And may be we should send some ninjas to take away
zenspider's keyboard!
 
R

Ryan Davis

We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

Not counting my latest flood of releases, there are 40 announcements
out of 480 email over the last week or roughly 8.33%. If you do count
my flood, then it is 72 out of 529 or roughly 13.6%. Either way I
hardly think that constitutes the need for another list. seattle.rb,
ruby-core, ruby-talk, rubygems-developers, and UW-ruby... I don't need
any more ruby based mailing lists. Really, and this is coming from the
person who beat you to the punch by SEVEN years [1].
1) ruby-talk itself would improve

it would?
2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
sift

see that "@gmail.com" part of your email address? I hear they're
pretty good at this sort of thing. Even my lowly mac mail app seems to
do a damn good job of it.
3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

they would?

speculate much?

1) http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/51569
and http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/51818
 
B

Bill Kelly

From: "Trans said:
2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
sift

Geez, even my crappy Microsquish email client can do:

if Subject contains "[ANN]"
then move to folder "ruby-talk-announce"


... if i wanted it to, that is.

:)


Regards,

Bill
 
M

Mohit Sindhwani

Trans said:
We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

1) ruby-talk itself would improve

2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
sift

3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

I'd have to vote No! I think a Ruby Talk list is perfectly the correct
place (in my mind) to have announcements related to things Ruby
developers use/ might want. I have seen numerous threads where people
have announced a gem only for it to be followed by quick responses on
problems people are facing, what might be wrong with it, etc. This
would become a bit more difficult if the gem were announced only on a
separate list.

Cheers,
Mohit.
6/24/2009 | 5:30 PM.
 
R

Robert Dober

Double Dog Dare you. :p

Nice one ;).
Sorry Tom, I stole your idea in the other thread, needless to say that
I back you up on this ;)

Cheers
Robert


--=20
Toutes les grandes personnes ont d=92abord =E9t=E9 des enfants, mais peu
d=92entre elles s=92en souviennent.

All adults have been children first, but not many remember.

[Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry]
 
R

Robert Dober

From: "Trans said:
2) we'd all know were to look to see what's new without having to
sift

Geez, even my crappy Microsquish email client can do:

if Subject contains "[ANN]"
then move to folder "ruby-talk-announce"


... if i wanted it to, that is.

:)
Now that is a philosophical question, personally I prefer to filter on
the ML address rather than on the subject line, seems much more
reliable. But it is a great thing to do in the meantime if one is
bothered ....
R
 
T

trans


Increasing the concentration/orientation of list toward Ruby issues,
problem solving, etc. rather then yet another 0.0.1 bump release.
Again How? Many folks use filtered feed of ruby-talk that just caters
to announcements (rather than subscribing to mailing list).
Announcements are very important part of ruby-talk, moving
announcements to a different list serves little purpose.

At the very least it means you wouldn't need a filtered feed ;)
Personally I am interested in both announcements and the rest of ruby-
talk. I would prefer to view the two separately. I am not going to go
out of my way to setup filters that will have only a limited level of
success.

T.
 
R

Ryan Davis

Personally I am interested in both announcements and the rest of ruby-
talk. I would prefer to view the two separately. I am not going to go
out of my way to setup filters that will have only a limited level of
success.

and yet we should go out of our way to set up an entire mailing list
"that will have only a limited level of success"?
 
R

Robert Dober

and yet we should go out of our way to set up an entire mailing list "tha= t
will have only a limited level of success"?

I have no idea if you should ;). I would like it though as soon as the
[Ann] rate hits a 20~30% mark.

Cheers
Robert
--=20
Toutes les grandes personnes ont d=92abord =E9t=E9 des enfants, mais peu
d=92entre elles s=92en souviennent.

All adults have been children first, but not many remember.

[Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry]
 
T

trans

Not counting my latest flood of releases, there are 40 announcements =A0
out of 480 email over the last week or roughly 8.33%. If you do count =A0
my flood, then it is 72 out of 529 or roughly 13.6%. Either way I =A0
hardly think that constitutes the need for another list. seattle.rb, =A0
ruby-core, ruby-talk, rubygems-developers, and UW-ruby...

First, I think 8%-13% is a good bit. But more to the point, it could
be much worse. Consider how it would be if everyone announced as
regularly as you do.

Personally, I wish they did. I often learn of new projects just by
chance --usually a mention on some blog. I would like to encourage
more people to make announcements --even those little 0.0.1 bumps. I
like to see it become a very regular habit of all ruby developers. But
if that happened then we can expect that percentage to shoot way way
up.

I also suspect that many people do not announce b/c they don't want to
add too much "noise" to the list or they don't want to announce their
wares for "all to see" if they don't feel is quite up to snuff yet. If
there was a separate list they could feel more at ease about these
considerations, and as a result the whole community could benefit.
I don't need =A0
any more ruby based mailing lists. Really, and this is coming from the = =A0
person who beat you to the punch by SEVEN years [1].
1) ruby-talk itself would improve

it would?

You used to think so too. Do you think now that the lack of
announcements would make ruby-talk worse?
see that "@gmail.com" part of your email address? I hear they're =A0
pretty good at this sort of thing. Even my lowly mac mail app seems to = =A0
do a damn good job of it.

Many people access the list via other means. I use Google Groups.
There is also Usenet and Ruby Forum, among others. Filtering is not
always so straight-forward.
they would?

Yes, I think they would. See above.
speculate much?

There's a fine line between calculation and speculation --I think they
call it evaluation.
1)http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/51569=A0
andhttp://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/51818

I think you make very good points. But something like this cannot work
without being official ruby-lang.org list.

T.
 
T

trans

I'd have to vote No! =A0I think a Ruby Talk list is perfectly the correct
place (in my mind) to have announcements related to things Ruby
developers use/ might want. =A0I have seen numerous threads where people
have announced a gem only for it to be followed by quick responses on
problems people are facing, what might be wrong with it, etc. =A0This
would become a bit more difficult if the gem were announced only on a
separate list.

While "announce" indicates a one way form of speech, unlike "talk", I
take your point. However, there's no reason people can't utilize the
announce list to follow up an announce post with "quick responses on
problems people are facing, what might be wrong with it, etc." Such
posts are geared toward issue with the release itself, which makes
sense.

T.
 
H

hemant

Increasing the concentration/orientation of list toward Ruby issues,
problem solving, etc. rather then yet another 0.0.1 bump release.


That concentration/orientation thing is just overrated. That utopia of
a mailing list where only insightful and interesting things will be
discussed is just not going to work (case in point "thoughful-ruby"
mailing list).
At the very least it means you wouldn't need a filtered feed ;)
Personally I am interested in both announcements and the rest of ruby-
talk. I would prefer to view the two separately. I am not going to go
out of my way to setup filters that will have only a limited level of
success.

It also means, you need a separate list to begin with and as Mohit
pointed out sometimes its interesting to have a discussion about
package being announced right here on ruby-talk, which is the right
channel for such things. A separate list for announcements will be too
limited in scope.



--=20
Let them talk of their oriental summer climes of everlasting
conservatories; give me the privilege of making my own summer with my
own coals.

http://gnufied.org
 
B

Bill Kelly

From: "Robert Dober said:
Now that is a philosophical question, personally I prefer to filter on
the ML address rather than on the subject line, seems much more
reliable. But it is a great thing to do in the meantime if one is
bothered ....

Reliable in theory... :)

I can imagine a rough equivalence between posters who
currently don't know to use [ANN], and folks who would end
up posting announcements to ruby-talk regardless of the
existence of a separate "reliable" announce list.

:)


Regards,

Bill
 
M

Mohit Sindhwani

trans said:
While "announce" indicates a one way form of speech, unlike "talk", I
take your point. However, there's no reason people can't utilize the
announce list to follow up an announce post with "quick responses on
problems people are facing, what might be wrong with it, etc." Such
posts are geared toward issue with the release itself, which makes
sense.

I guess you're right - it really depends. The way I see it, it keeps
all the talk in one place. That said, if another list starts to get
used, I would simply sign up to it with the same email address as this
one and let it drop into the same mailbox. That way, it would work
almost the same - only there is a chance I would get multiple ANN posts
(similar to the way it works between Rails-Talk and Ruby-Talk some times).

Cheers,
Mohit.
6/24/2009 | 9:22 PM.
 
J

Jörg W Mittag

Trans said:
We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

We already have not one, but *two* such lists. What do you think a
third one would accomplish that two can't?

Also, the success hasn't exactly been overwhelming: the
rubynet-announce list has had exactly 20 mails in over 6 years(!), and
ruby-community-announcements had 28 mails in more than one year.

[...]
3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

35% of the announcements on (e-mail address removed) are
from Daniel J Berg, 25% from Ryan Davis, 10% each from Anders
Bengtsson and Michael Davis and 5% each from David Alan Black, Simon
Strandgaard, Jeremy Hylton and Francis Hwang. So, around 70% of the
announcements are by the same people who *already* announce on
comp.lang.ruby. The numbers for ruby-community-announcements are
similar: the majority of mails are release announcements for Prawn
from Gregory Brown, S9 announcements from Gerald Bauer plus some stuff
from John Mettraux, Mike Mondragon and Matt Todd, all of whom already
announce on comp.lang.ruby, I believe.
 
T

trans

Trans said:
We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

We already have not one, but *two* such lists. What do you think a
third one would accomplish that two can't?

Also, the success hasn't exactly been overwhelming: the
rubynet-announce list has had exactly 20 mails in over 6 years(!), and
ruby-community-announcements had 28 mails in more than one year.

[...]
3) other people besides Ryan Davis would announce their projects ;-)

35% of the announcements on (e-mail address removed) are
from Daniel J Berg, 25% from Ryan Davis, 10% each from Anders
Bengtsson and Michael Davis and 5% each from David Alan Black, Simon
Strandgaard, Jeremy Hylton and Francis Hwang. So, around 70% of the
announcements are by the same people who *already* announce on
comp.lang.ruby. The numbers for ruby-community-announcements are
similar: the majority of mails are release announcements for Prawn
from Gregory Brown, S9 announcements from Gerald Bauer plus some stuff
from John Mettraux, Mike Mondragon and Matt Todd, all of whom already
announce on comp.lang.ruby, I believe.

As I stated earlier, this kind of thing cannot work without being an
official list. No one is going to pay any attention to a list that is
not an offical ruby-lang.org list.

T.
 
R

Roger Pack

We are seeing a lot or release announcements among the regular posts
these days, taking up a larger and larger percentage of total posts.
Perhaps if we have a separate list for them then:

+1
I always wish I could subscribe to just the announcements [more than the
rubyforge RSS, which for some reason doesn't get them all] because
subscribing to ruby-talk is too much traffic and I'm too lazy to setup a
filter in my gmail. Barrier to entry. Maybe bring it up to the core
fellas?

Thanks!
=r
 

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