CLPM - a help group?

[Charlton Wilbur]

AW> And you people complain when someone starts dictating
AW> policy... what the hell do you call this?

People complain when an outsider shows up in the newsgroup, apparently
for the sole purpose of telling us what we're doing is wrong and how we
should change to suit him.

People don't complain when a regular poster expresses a sentiment that
they agree with.

You really should leave now, before you get plonked any further.

Charlton

 

[Ben Morrow]

Quoth Adam Worrall <[email protected]>:

Do not change your posting address. It will not encourage those of us
who have you killfiled to take you any more seriously.

Ben

 

[Tad J McClellan]

And you people complain when someone starts dictating policy... what the
hell do you call this?

An attempt to increase the fidelity in clpmisc.

 

[sln]

Quoth Adam Worrall <[email protected]>:

Do not change your posting address. It will not encourage those of us
who have you killfiled to take you any more seriously.

Ben

Killfile, who DIES there?

Isin't that a just a filter, or do you actually commit murder and should be reported
to the police (give them your isp)?

Filtering posts are a good thing if true spambots. Not so good with real people.
But hey, it sounds very impressive KILL file, like your murdering somebody.
All it does is exclude yourself, not others.

LOL.....

sln

 

[sln]

Killfile, who DIES there?

Isin't that a just a filter, or do you actually commit murder and should be reported
to the police (give them your isp)?

Filtering posts are a good thing if true spambots. Not so good with real people.
But hey, it sounds very impressive KILL file, like your murdering somebody.
All it does is exclude yourself, not others.

LOL.....

sln

Another form of CONTROL isin't it? Mention kill and your cyber decapitated,
or are you?

sln

 

[Sherm Pendley]

When did I say that? All I said was that it functions like a
_volunteer_ help desk

What you said is wrong. Help desk workers are obligated to answer
questions as given. The fact that they've chosen to voluntarily accept
that obligation makes it no less binding once it's been accepted. It's
kind of like military service in the US. No one is drafted, but the
fact that you volunteer to serve doesn't imply that you can pick and
choose which assignments to accept.

No such obligation exists on usenet, in *any* group. We're free to
answer questions if we want, but we can also choose to laugh at,
ignore, or discuss them in ways that aren't at all helpful to the
person asking them.

How about you acquire some reading comprehension skills and start
thinking for yourself instead of allowing people like Tad to do the
thinking for you based on things I didn't actually say.

I *do* think for myself, jerk - and I think your attitude sucks. Put
up or shut up - if you want this group to be more helpful, then start
answering some questions. You know, like Tad does.

sherm--

 

[John Bokma]

You don't know what you're talking about. The statement was that a
news groups like this functions as a _voluntary_ help desk. No one is
obligated to answer anything but they do because they want to.

Something that /appears/ to function as, in this case, a voluntary help
desk, doesn't make it one.

Voluntary still implies that there are rules / guidelines. If I volunteer
to feed homeless people, I can't feed them dogfood for example, nor can I
feed one, and reject another for random reasons. Also, I have to be at a
certain place, on time.

There are no such rules here, hence, this *not a helpdesk*, voluntary or
not. This is a discussion group. If you get help out of it, fine. But you
can't insist on getting help from the participants, even if your question
is 100% Perl related and answerable by them.

In short: you're wrong, but nice trolling.

 

[brian d foy]

I've read the FAQ for along time now, so I can only say
thanks to BDF.

Well, the FAQ's quality is really the sum of a lot of people's comments
and patches that come from right here in this group. I just have the
commit bit.

 

[Adam Worrall]

AW> And you people complain when someone starts dictating
AW> policy... what the hell do you call this?

People complain when an outsider shows up in the newsgroup, apparently
for the sole purpose of telling us what we're doing is wrong and how we
should change to suit him.

But that's not what I did. What has happened is I've been scolded for
doing what the regulars constantly do: dictating what is right and
wrong, and that's not what I did. It was just another semi-clever
reversal, a common tactic.

People don't complain when a regular poster expresses a sentiment that
they agree with.

Stop assuming everyone agrees with the "popular" views.

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

An attempt to increase the fidelity in clpmisc.

Another lie. You repeatedly have committed the crime you charged me and
all you can do it resort to invoking countless fallacies and defense
mechanisms (such as the reversals you and your cronies have been using)
instead of crafting an actual intelligent response. You obviously excel
in turning arguments against your views around so the other side is
wrong no matter what, even when they aren't.

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

Something that /appears/ to function as, in this case, a voluntary help
desk, doesn't make it one.

It also doesn't not make it one. Why is it you can dictate what it is or
isn't yet any other person who gets buried for it?

Voluntary still implies that there are rules / guidelines.

It depends entirely on the particular "desk", as you cannot give one
blanket statement, just as it's wrong to give the blanket statement that
this groups is "not a help desk."

If I volunteer to feed homeless people, I can't feed them dogfood for
example,

Sure you could, but you wouldn't want to. "I can't" and "I wouldn't" are
not the same.

There are no such rules here,

I thought the regulars always push the posting guidelines as rules? Even
so, that in and of itself doesn't make or not make a help desk, volunary
or otherwise.

hence, this *not a helpdesk*, voluntary or not.

Why are you attempting to dictate what this group is or isn't? No one,
not you, nor I, or anyone else, has the authority to pronounce what a
group is or isn't, so please stop doing it.

This is a discussion group. If you get help out of it, fine.

Getting help would seem to be one of it's primary functions. Why is it
so painful for you to admit this?

But you can't insist on getting help from the participants, even
if your question is 100% Perl related and answerable by them.

I never claimed that one had to insist, and in voluntary help services,
it's the same thing, you don't have to help, you aren't required to do
so, so once again, it matches the general behavior of this group.

In short: you're wrong, but nice trolling.

Yep, anyone who doesn't bend over and succumb to your views has to be a
troll. Nice blanket defense.

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

What you said is wrong. Help desk workers are obligated to answer
questions as given.

No, not all help desk work that way. Please stop using that one blanket
statement to cover all various kinds of help services that exist out
there. I have worked one on so I know first hand, so please spare me the
superiority complex.

- Adam

 

[Sherm Pendley]

No, not all help desk work that way. Please stop using that one
blanket statement to cover all various kinds of help services that
exist out there.

I *didn't* use it to cover various kinds of help services. Quite to
the contrary, *you* are the one trying to stretch the definition. A
help desk is a place where people can go with the expectation of
receiving assistance, without commentary that isn't relevant to their
questions.

A place where such diversionary discussion is welcome and expected,
such as this one, is not a help desk. People who come here might find
help, or they might not.

so please
spare me the superiority complex.

*You* are accusing *me* of having a superiority complex? I hate to
break it to you, but I'm not the one walking into an established
community, and telling everyone in it that they're doing things wrong
and ought to change their ways.

sherm--

 

[John Bokma]

No, not all help desk work that way. Please stop using that one blanket
statement to cover all various kinds of help services that exist out
there. I have worked one on so I know first hand, so please spare me the
superiority complex.

So you worked at a voluntary help desk that had no obligation to function?

 

[Michael Carman]

No, not all help desk work that way.

Why the ^%*!& are you still arguing this? It's obvious that no one else
agrees with you (no one who's willing to post, at least). It's also
obvious that your not going to sway anyone, nor beat them into submission.

-mjc

 

[Justin C]

Stop assuming everyone agrees with the "popular" views.

Stop assuming that everyone accept you doesn't.

Justin.

 

[Justin C]

It also doesn't not make it one. Why is it you can dictate what it is or
isn't yet any other person who gets buried for it?

Al Qaeda, selling cookies door-to-door, dressed as boy scouts,
apparently raising money for Georgian orphans doesn't make Al Qaeda a
charitable organisation either. They're still terrorists.

Even if they raised billions for orphans around the world would you
disregard 9/11 and not call them terrorists?

This group is for discussion of Perl. That many people request, and get,
help here changes nothing.

Did you come for a five minute argument or the full half-hour?

Most normal people would have just given up by now and either gone away
or shut up, chalking one up to experience. You seem intent on making as
many enemies as possible, and ending up in a record number of
kill-files. Whatever your intention, if you request help here in the
future you may well find yourself short of respondents through
persevering with this stupid argument.

Right or wrong, who cares when it's this tedious? Please, give it up.

Justin.

 

[John Bokma]

Is al-Qaeda the next Nazis? Because this thread so needs to end.

Rest assured, it will end around Wednesday, next week. Ten days later a
new discussion will start, this time the topic will be: "Why are regular
expressions unreadable in PERL?"

 

[Adam Worrall]

Al Qaeda, selling cookies door-to-door, dressed as boy scouts,
apparently raising money for Georgian orphans doesn't make Al Qaeda a
charitable organisation either. They're still terrorists.

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

Even if they raised billions for orphans around the world would you
disregard 9/11 and not call them terrorists?

I would not disregard 9/11 and they would indeed still be terrorists,
but I ask again, what does this have to do with anything?

This group is for discussion of Perl. That many people request, and get,
help here changes nothing.

Exactly, it functions like like the volunteer desk I once worked on.
That was the point, and some of you went nuts over it as if it was an
attack on your religion.

Did you come for a five minute argument or the full half-hour?

I have not run away from anything, so please do not imply otherwise.

Most normal people would have just given up by now and either gone away
or shut up, chalking one up to experience.

Why, because _you_ saw that's right? That alone doesn't mean it _the_
correct, or the only correct course of action. _Not_ giving up is
sometimes the better approach, and giving up here only tells that the
wrong side has been allowed to win.

I'm not a coward, I will stand up for what I know is right and what is
obviously wrong (which those who are wrong conveniently rely on time
honored defensive mechanisms to make their non-points - such as just
branding anyone they don't like as a "troll.")

You seem intent on making as many enemies as possible, and ending up
in a record number of kill-files.

You seem intent on implying my intent My goal here is/was not to make
as many enemies as possible, but it's clear one cannot voice against
what may be the status-quo in some people's eyes, without getting buried
by the very people who think they own the news group, which is quite
laughable in and of itself.

Whatever your intention, if you request help here in the
future you may well find yourself short of respondents through
persevering with this stupid argument.

Thanks, but I know how to find help when I need it.

Right or wrong, who cares when it's this tedious? Please, give it up.

So what? Then why are you reading it. Weather or not the thread is
boring to you, who are you dictate to others how to proceed in a thread?
A thread is for everyone, not just you. If you don't like a way a
thread is going, than _don't_ _read_ _it_. It's very simple.

In fact, this sort of thing exactly proves me point about the certain
type of people on Usenet who which to push their will on others, which
really has no place in a peer to peer environment. There is no central
government, and people who act like they are the president is what's the
problem here.

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

I *didn't* use it to cover various kinds of help services.

Then why did you say I was wrong? I even used a personal experience and
you still said I was wrong. You used an example that was different than
what I said and what I said does apply to this group.

Quite to the contrary, *you* are the one trying to stretch the
definition.

Not true at all. I merely used a personal experience and compared the
similarities to how this and many other groups function and the lot of
you just jumped into defense mode as if someone was trying to tear down
your religion.

A help desk is a place where people can go with the expectation of
receiving assistance, without commentary that isn't relevant to their
questions.

There you go again. This does not really apply to a _volunteer_ help
desk where you are _not_ obligated to answer _anything_, which _how_
_this_ _group_ _functions_.

A place where such diversionary discussion is welcome and expected,
such as this one, is not a help desk. People who come here might find
help, or they might not.

I never actually this group or any other group is a help desk. I said it
_functions_ just like a volunteer help desk, like the one I served on once.

*You* are accusing *me* of having a superiority complex?

If the shoe fits.

I hate to break it to you, but I'm not the one walking into an
established community, and telling everyone in it that they're doing
things wrong and ought to change their ways.

There you go again. I NEVER told anyone what they were doing was wrong.
I was merely stating a fact about how this and many other group
function. Please learn to read, learn to no twist the truth into
something far from it, and frankly, it's easier to breathe when your
head has been dislodged from your lower carrier.

- Adam