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  • Thread starter Luigi Donatello Asero
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L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Here is another link which can be useful if you really want to read about
laws which have to do with e-commerce.
www.ebusinesslex.net
I want to point out that the kind of help which I would expect from this NG
would be to implement technical solutions and not to define my aims.
So, for example, I could ask: how can I let my buttons disappear and you
could answer: "by using the property [display: none;]" and not by saying
"but why on earth do you want to let the buttons disappear?"
In this thread I had asked how to create a site map in the best way but I
have not
found any answer about that.
 
O

Oli Filth

Luigi Donatello Asero said the following on 06/06/2005 13:49:
I want to point out that the kind of help which I would expect from this NG
would be to implement technical solutions and not to define my aims.
So, for example, I could ask: how can I let my buttons disappear and you
could answer: "by using the property [display: none;]" and not by saying
"but why on earth do you want to let the buttons disappear?"

This is a newsgroup, not an HTML help-desk! More often than not, posting
a question will lead to a discussion rather than a direct answer, as I'm
sure you are aware.

Although you refuse to believe it, when people say things like "Why on
earth do you want to ...", it is *advice*.

When people say "... is a bad idea", followed by a reason why, that is
*advice*.

When people say "here is a better way of doing ...", followed by a
reason why, that is also *advice*.

Obviously, it is up to you whether to take that advice or not.

If anyone is opinionated, perhaps it is you, because you refuse to
realise that maybe you still have stuff to learn about web progamming
and design. Commercial websites have been around for at least 10 years,
there have been thousands if not millions of them. In these 10 years,
people have learnt the hard way what is a good idea and what is not,
what works and what doesn't work, what is a good design and what is a
bad design. Why put yourself at a disadvantage by ignoring all of this?

An analogy:

If you were to design a car (or a TV, or a space shuttle, or shampoo, or
anything), would you ignore all the literature and knowledge about how
cars have been designed in the last 100 years, and say "That's just your
opinion. I know better"? I doubt it. You'd probably find some good
examples of cars that work well, try to understand why they work well,
and then take it from there.

Once you'd got to that stage, then it would be appropriate to say "what
can I do differently now that I have something that works?".
In this thread I had asked how to create a site map in the best way but I
have not found any answer about that.

That's probably because your pages are so inconsistent, that it's
impossible for anyone to figure out what would suit you for a site-map
or navigation.

Like I said, using a template system rather than loads of static HTML
pages would help you immensely. Design a page template that contains the
navigation menus and headings, etc., and use PHP to insert (or
include()) the necessary page-specific content for each page that the
user requests.

e.g.:

menu.html
=========

<DIV id="menu">
<H2>Menu</H2>
<UL>
<LI><A href="page.php">Home</A></LI>
<LI><A href="shoes.php">Shoes</A></LI>
<LI><A href="stuff.php">Stuff</A></LI>
</UL>
</DIV>


home.php
========

<!DOCTYPE ...>
<HTML>
<HEAD>...</HEAD>
<BODY>
<?php include "menu.html"; ?>

<H1>Welcome to my site!</H1>
.....
.....
</BODY>
</HTML>

Use the same <?php include "menu.html"; ?> line in every page.
Obviously, you'd need to work out how to get it to cope with different
language versions.

That's how I design all of my sites. It works. It saves me huge amounts
of time. It's easy to maintain. It ensures all pages are consistent and
up to date. It keeps page infrastructure separate from page content. You
have no reason not to at least try this!

There - that is direct, practical, sensible advice that answers your
original question. ;)
 
A

Animesh Kumar

Luigi said:
I get many answers ( perhaps more) in other Newsgroups.
It is ok for me that you think that the website is awful.
It is your opinion and I respect it.
But I have mine.

If you already have an opinion why do you ask for others opinion?
Usually people ask for constructive suggestions; not just to sense who
is thinking different than me.

Your site puts me off as well, like many others here.

Best
A
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Animesh Kumar said:
If you already have an opinion why do you ask for others opinion?
Usually people ask for constructive suggestions; not just to sense who
is thinking different than me.

I asked about a site map but I did not get any answer about it. At least I
did not find any in this thread.
Did you find it?
 
A

Animesh Kumar

Luigi said:
I asked about a site map but I did not get any answer about it. At least I
did not find any in this thread.
Did you find it?
The point is as soon as we reach your website, the paraphernalia puts us
off. First impression could be the lasting impression on web. You dont
get a lot of chance with billions of pages indexed.

Best
A
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Oli Filth said:
Luigi Donatello Asero said the following on 06/06/2005 13:49:
I want to point out that the kind of help which I would expect from this NG
would be to implement technical solutions and not to define my aims.
So, for example, I could ask: how can I let my buttons disappear and you
could answer: "by using the property [display: none;]" and not by saying
"but why on earth do you want to let the buttons disappear?"

This is a newsgroup, not an HTML help-desk! More often than not, posting
a question will lead to a discussion rather than a direct answer, as I'm
sure you are aware.


Yes, I am. But it should be balanced.
To speak almost only about other things than the original question does not
make much sense.
If anyone is opinionated, perhaps it is you, because you refuse to
realise that maybe you still have stuff to learn about web progamming
and design.

Not at all. I have learned things since I was born and I am going on.
But I am of the opinion that I am not the only one who has to learn.
Everyone has.

Commercial websites have been around for at least 10 years,
there have been thousands if not millions of them. In these 10 years,
people have learnt the hard way what is a good idea and what is not,
what works and what doesn't work, what is a good design and what is a
bad design. Why put yourself at a disadvantage by ignoring all of this?

An analogy:

If you were to design a car (or a TV, or a space shuttle, or shampoo, or
anything), would you ignore all the literature and knowledge about how
cars have been designed in the last 100 years, and say "That's just your
opinion. I know better"? I doubt it. You'd probably find some good
examples of cars that work well, try to understand why they work well,
and then take it from there.

Once you'd got to that stage, then it would be appropriate to say "what
can I do differently now that I have something that works?".


That's probably because your pages are so inconsistent, that it's
impossible for anyone to figure out what would suit you for a site-map
or navigation.


That has not much to do with that, in my opinion.
Like I said, using a template system rather than loads of static HTML
pages would help you immensely. Design a page template that contains the
navigation menus and headings, etc., and use PHP to insert (or
include()) the necessary page-specific content for each page that the
user requests.

Ok. That has finally to do with site maps but it is perhaps not exactly what
I was looking for.
First of all I wonder whether this system would be good for the robots.
But I am doing something similar without include() with statical pages and
php without insert to avoid problems with search engines.
e.g.:

menu.html
=========

<DIV id="menu">
<H2>Menu</H2>
<UL>
<LI><A href="page.php">Home</A></LI>
<LI><A href="shoes.php">Shoes</A></LI>
<LI><A href="stuff.php">Stuff</A></LI>
</UL>
</DIV>


home.php
========

<!DOCTYPE ...>
<HTML>
<HEAD>...</HEAD>
<BODY>
<?php include "menu.html"; ?>

<H1>Welcome to my site!</H1>
....
....
</BODY>
</HTML>

Use the same <?php include "menu.html"; ?> line in every page.
Obviously, you'd need to work out how to get it to cope with different
language versions.

That's how I design all of my sites. It works. It saves me huge amounts
of time. It's easy to maintain. It ensures all pages are consistent and
up to date. It keeps page infrastructure separate from page content. You
have no reason not to at least try this!
There - that is direct, practical, sensible advice that answers your
original question. ;)


Yes, it is.
But I am afraid that it is not robots´ friendly.
That is also why I have done it manually, so far.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Animesh Kumar said:
The point is as soon as we reach your website, the paraphernalia puts us
off. First impression could be the lasting impression on web. You dont
get a lot of chance with billions of pages indexed.

Best
A


That has probably partly to do with you
1) do not understand Swedish or Italian ( most of the pages are in Swedish
so far)
2) do not try to give general advice about how to build a sitemap. In fact,
a site map should help follow the links and not viceversa
 
M

Michael Winter

"Oli Filth" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet

[snip]
Use the same <?php include "menu.html"; ?> line in every page.
[snip]

But I am afraid that it is not robots´ friendly. [...]

Excuse me? PHP performs actions on the server before the client -
whatever it is (browser, search bot, etc.) - ever receives the response.
How on Earth could it not be search engine-friendly if the result,
whether it is performed manually or by an include construct, is the same?

Perhaps you were referring to something else that was not obvious due to
your apparent inability to trim quotes. I hope so.

Mike
 
O

Oli Filth

Luigi Donatello Asero said the following on 06/06/2005 22:28:
Yes, it is.
But I am afraid that it is not robots´ friendly.

That's nonsense! Who told you that?
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Oli Filth said:
Luigi Donatello Asero said the following on 06/06/2005 22:28:

That's nonsense! Who told you that?

I do not know whether I remember it correctly but I think I read it in this
NG or may-be in alt.php.
May-be the problem was with to bookmark the page then.
Did you look at the website https://www.lafamiglia.se
What do you think about it and their sitemap?
 
O

Oli Filth

Luigi Donatello Asero said the following on 06/06/2005 23:16:
"Oli Filth" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet

[snip]


Use the same <?php include "menu.html"; ?> line in every page.


It is no big advantage anyway

It's an advantage on any site with more than about 2 pages!
because I have to insert it in every page
which is what I already do with a longer piece of code ( the menu) when I
copy it in the document tree of the pages.

Yes, but how many pages do you have? Let's say 50.

So every time you want to make a change to your menu, you have to make
the same change on *every* page *every* time, i.e. 50 times.

With an include(), you have to make the change *once*. That doesn't
sound like an advantage?
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Oli Filth said:
Luigi Donatello Asero said the following on 06/06/2005 23:16:
On 06/06/2005 22:28, Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:


"Oli Filth" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet

[snip]

Yes, but how many pages do you have? Let's say 50.

Much more. The website contains over 1500 files and over 800 pictures.
So every time you want to make a change to your menu, you have to make
the same change on *every* page *every* time, i.e. 50 times.

With an include(), you have to make the change *once*. That doesn't
sound like an advantage?


Yes, it does. But does it not have any disadvantages?
What about bookmarking the pages?
 
K

kchayka

FYI, using https on your site isn't cache-friendly. I imagine https is
not very robot-friendly, either.
Did you look at the website https://www.lafamiglia.se

Using a certificate that is registered to another domain only makes me
think it is either a sleazy operation, they are lazy, or just
incompetent. All are bad.
What do you think about it and their sitemap?

Other than the suspicious certificate, the layout falls apart when I
make the text size big enough to read. With problems like that, I'd have
no interest in going beyond the home page. Regardless, I don't read
Swedish so I couldn't comment on this anyway.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

kchayka said:
FYI, using https on your site isn't cache-friendly. I imagine https is
not very robot-friendly, either.


It seems to work.
See:
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cach...caiecat-spa-gigi.com/+Scaiecat+Spa+Gigi&hl=sv


[cut]
the layout falls apart when I
make the text size big enough to read. With problems like that, I'd have
no interest in going beyond the home page. Regardless, I don't read
Swedish so I couldn't comment on this anyway.

It does not have any fluid design.

What about this?
http://www.expasy.org/images/others/sitemap.gif
 

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