My future Python IDE article

Discussion in 'Python' started by David Mertz, Aug 26, 2003.

  1. David Mertz

    David Mertz Guest

    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...

    --
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    David Mertz, Aug 26, 2003
    #1
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  2. David Mertz

    Dialtone Guest

    (David Mertz) writes:

    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    > list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    > prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    > copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).


    This one is easy :).

    My voting goes for:

    1) Emacs + python-mode + ipython as interactive shell inside emacs +
    speedbar as class browser (I use this... actually I use emacs for
    everything :))

    2) Eric3

    3) Eclipse + Trustudio

    4) Another one randomly

    PS: Under windows my favourite is PythonWin

    --
    Valentino Volonghi, Regia SpA, Milan

    Linux User #310274, Debian Sid Proud User
     
    Dialtone, Aug 26, 2003
    #2
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  3. David Mertz

    Rune Guest

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:39:17 -0400, (David Mertz)
    wrote:


    >Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    >tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    >Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    >in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    >-someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.


    At least you will have to comment the Komodo from ActiveState.

    Rune
     
    Rune, Aug 26, 2003
    #3
  4. Dialtone <dialtone#NOSPAM#> writes:

    > 3) Eclipse + Trustudio


    Mmm i don't think so. IDLE is better :)
    And i think that's not a great idea to use an IDE
    that needs a JVM to run only to have syntax highlighting
    and a not-so-smart indentation feature. For Trustudio you
    need a JVM (~20 Mb) , Eclipse (~60Mb), Trustudio plugins
    (~1.5 Mb)

    For IDLE you need nothing :)

    When Trustudio will become really useful, i think that'll
    be the time to look at it, since Eclipse itself is awesome
    for refactoring and Java coding

    --
    Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
    http://loluyede.blogspot.com
     
    Lawrence Oluyede, Aug 26, 2003
    #4
  5. "Dialtone" <dialtone#NOSPAM#> wrote in message
    news:...
    > (David Mertz) writes:
    >
    > > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    > > list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    > > prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    > > copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    >
    > This one is easy :).
    >
    > My voting goes for:
    >
    > 1) Emacs + python-mode + ipython as interactive shell inside emacs +
    > speedbar as class browser (I use this... actually I use emacs for
    > everything :))


    I use the same Emacs configuration with the addition of ELSE (with the
    python code templates for easy code input) and PyMacs (for extending Emacs
    using Python).

    >
    > 2) Eric3
    >
    > 3) Eclipse + Trustudio
    >
    > 4) Another one randomly
    >
    > PS: Under windows my favourite is PythonWin
    >
    > --
    > Valentino Volonghi, Regia SpA, Milan
    >
    > Linux User #310274, Debian Sid Proud User
     
    Peter Milliken, Aug 26, 2003
    #5
  6. David Mertz

    Chris Reedy Guest

    David Mertz wrote:
    >
    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    > list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    > prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    > copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).


    Boy, this is a hard one. I currently use IDLE for all my work, mostly
    since it comes gratis with Python. For that reason I find myself wanting
    to argue for its inclusion so I have a baseline for comparison.

    Beyond that, I think the ones I'd be most interested in hearing about
    would be eric3 and Komodo, mainly because those are ones where I've gone
    to the trouble to look at their web pages.

    Chris




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    Chris Reedy, Aug 26, 2003
    #6
  7. "Peter Milliken" <> writes:

    > I use the same Emacs configuration with the addition of ELSE (with the
    > python code templates for easy code input) and PyMacs (for extending Emacs
    > using Python).


    Cool! How does ELSE works? How could i setup Emacs to use it easily?

    PyMacs? Wow :) I'll check it out tomorrow

    --
    Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
    http://loluyede.blogspot.com
     
    Lawrence Oluyede, Aug 26, 2003
    #7
  8. David Mertz

    Paul M Guest

    David Mertz wrote:

    >
    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    > list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    > prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    > copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    >
    > Yours, David...


    I think it would be great to focus on truly cross platform IDEs. I
    regularly use Python on Win32, Linux, and Mac OS X, and I tend to prefer
    editors that work on at least those platforms (more would be great!). I
    imagine other people platform-hop a lot as well. And cross
    platform-ness is definitely keeping with the spirit of python.

    --Paul M.
     
    Paul M, Aug 27, 2003
    #8
  9. "David Mertz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    <snip request for IDE suggestions>

    Depending on how you want to define IDE, Leo would be my choice. I use it to
    develop code, documentation, web pages as well as a arranging thoughts and
    ideas in a structured way. For me, it is the best IDE because it integrates
    with the way I think. The ability to represent the same information in
    mutiple ways is a very powerful feature that I haven't seen matched in other
    IDE's.

    As a different spin on IDE's, Leo is definitely worth a look.

    Paul
     
    Paul Paterson, Aug 27, 2003
    #9
  10. My favorites IDEs:

    1)Eric3 (despite a little work still to do) under Linux;
    2)Pythonwin under Windows;
    3)Komodo if I would buy one.
    4)Pycrust is also a useful tool

    Luca

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    Luca Simonetti, Aug 27, 2003
    #10
  11. (David Mertz) writes:

    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on
    > the list.


    I'll have to sling in another vote for (X)Emacs.

    Even if you were to use Emacs exclusively for Python development, it
    already provides an excellent environment.

    However, as you approach the limit where Emacs _is_ your opearting
    system, the level of integration it provides is unsurpassable :)
     
    Jacek Generowicz, Aug 27, 2003
    #11
  12. David Mertz

    rzed Guest

    David Mertz wrote:
    > Pythonistas,
    >
    > My loyal fans :) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    > _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such
    > roundup lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on
    > the list.
    >
    > In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might
    > call an IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and
    > read various announcements. But really I just use text editors and
    > command lines.
    >
    > Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four
    > different tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to
    > only do three. Past that, I cannot do more than list contact
    > information and platform in the available words. I'm sure there
    > are more than four IDEs that
    > -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a
    > cutoff.
    >
    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on
    > the list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should
    > this prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order
    > review copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    >


    I hope you'll take a look at boa constructor. It's an interesting
    project that is rapidly becoming better than just good.

    --
    rzed
     
    rzed, Aug 27, 2003
    #12
  13. Mike Thompson wrote:
    > "David Mertz" wrote:
    >>So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    >>list.

    >
    > I'm surprised no one has mentioned Boa. I tryed Wing & Komodo, before finding
    > Boa.


    Boa is far from finished. Depending on your wxPython version and how you
    use the IDE, it could work surprisingly well or annoy you to no end in
    my experience.

    I'd recommend to not review alpha software like Boa.

    -- Gerhard
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=, Aug 27, 2003
    #13
  14. Hi David,

    Although a lot of posters have recommended Emacs (and maybe Vim too?),
    I would avoid reviewing it (them) simply because it's been done so
    many times already.

    Personally, I would include:

    1) SciTE - cross-platform, multi-language etc. It alters the font for
    different elements of code (eg, comments are in one font, code in
    another which, along with different colours, makes different sections
    easy to locate - for me at least!).
    2) Leo - I have tried to use this, but am not really up to speed with
    it. However, it seems interesting, and like a previous poster said, it
    could be used for many tasks. It seems quite powerful once it is
    learned.

    All the best!

    Alan James Salmoni
    SalStat Statistics
    http://salstat.sunsite.dk

    (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Pythonistas,
    >
    > My loyal fans :) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    > _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    > lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.
    >
    > In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    > IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    > announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.
    >
    > Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    > tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    > Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    > in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    > -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.
    >
    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    > list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    > prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    > copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    >
    > Yours, David...
     
    Alan James Salmoni, Aug 27, 2003
    #14
  15. David Mertz

    Aahz Guest

    In article <>,
    David Mertz <> wrote:
    >
    >So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    >list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    >prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    >copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).


    I use vi, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I think you should
    include IDLE because there have been so many improvements with Python 2.3
    (running code in a separate process, if nothing else), and it is the
    standard IDE that comes with Python. That would make three + IDLE for
    your article, and you can get started on IDLE now.
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects
    with useful practice. --Aahz
     
    Aahz, Aug 27, 2003
    #15
  16. Alan James Salmoni wrote:
    > Personally, I would include:
    >
    > 1) SciTE [...]
    > 2) Leo [...]


    Neither one is an IDE (they lack a debugger). They're only editors.

    -- Gerhard
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=, Aug 27, 2003
    #16
  17. (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    >
    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    > list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    > prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    > copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).


    One should not forget about Boa Constructor
    (http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/). It is very feature rich.
    - it is not only editor/debugger but also GUI builder.
    - integrates with exisiting Python tools like PyChecker, Bicycle
    Repair Man, cyclops etc.
    - automatically generated documentation and UML view.
    - Zope debugger.
    It is also crossplatform

    Waldemar Osuch
     
    Waldemar Osuch, Aug 27, 2003
    #17
  18. David Mertz

    R.Marquez Guest

    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    > list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    > prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    > copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).


    I work on Windows mostly, and Pythonwin has been great for a few
    years, although it doesn't have any GUI building facilities. Lately,
    due to a bug in the last release (which I have already submitted), I
    have taken the opportunity to give others a try. I am not currently
    interested in paying for an IDE.

    I tried BOA a little while ago. My first impression was "wow, someone
    has done a lot of work here". However, I didn't like the fact that I
    had to mold my code to the way the application wants it. For example,
    I have to always have a "main" function. Maybe that is a good
    practice, but being forced to it didn't give me a good feeling. The
    code it generated for the GUI was a bit verbose and it... I don't
    know. It just didn't seem to simplify things for me too much. I
    probably should go back and give it another try one of these days.

    Idle is nice enough, although like Pythonwin, it doesn't have any GUI
    building facilities. Surprisingly for me, I couldn't find some basic
    features for simple code editing that I really like. For example, I
    couldn't find a way to have white space visible. It also doesn't seem
    to have an indentation guide feature, which I find very useful in
    Pythonwin (this feature seems to me to be a must for a Python code
    editor since indentation is so crucial in it). Also, I could not see
    how to display line numbers (although it does have a "Go to line"
    feature).

    I was surprised to find all of these features as well as most other
    features that I expected for basic code editing on the PythonCard
    prototype Code Editor. And, PythonCard is an actual Application
    builder, with outstanding GUI building facilities and all. I think
    that PythonCard has the potential to be the best IDE/App Builder for
    Python. It uses wxPython as its foundation, which I think is most GUI
    developers favorite *free* toolkit. Unfortunately, a lot of the
    wxPython widgets have yet to be integrated. However, it is already
    usable for simple GUI applications. So, if you haven't given a try I
    would encourage you to do so. You may just see what I mean.

    I still like Pythonwin as my favorite Code Editor in Windows. But,
    until my little bug is fixed I think I am sticking with PythonCard's
    Code Editor.

    -Ruben
     
    R.Marquez, Aug 27, 2003
    #18
  19. David Mertz

    Ulrich Petri Guest

    "David Mertz" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:...
    > Pythonistas,
    >
    > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    > list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    > prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    > copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    >


    You should definitely consider Boa-Constructor (be sure to use at least v.
    0.23, better yet the recent cvs version).
    IMHO its the most "complete" python IDE at the moment.

    Ciao Ulrich
     
    Ulrich Petri, Aug 27, 2003
    #19
  20. Hi Lawrence,

    I am the author of ELSE (one of the reasons I like using it with Emacs :)).
    You can find it at http://www.zipworld.com.au/~peterm (along with templates
    for other languages). There is an extensive users guide at the site (but
    since most people don't like documentation I would suggest that you browse
    the section on Installation, the section on "Default Keybindings" and have a
    look at the Tutorial section on using ELSE - these three sections that
    should get you up an going)

    If you need any assistance just drop me an email, I am more than happy to
    provide support etc.

    Peter

    "Lawrence Oluyede" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Peter Milliken" <> writes:
    >
    > > I use the same Emacs configuration with the addition of ELSE (with the
    > > python code templates for easy code input) and PyMacs (for extending

    Emacs
    > > using Python).

    >
    > Cool! How does ELSE works? How could i setup Emacs to use it easily?
    >
    > PyMacs? Wow :) I'll check it out tomorrow
    >
    > --
    > Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
    > http://loluyede.blogspot.com
    >
     
    Peter Milliken, Aug 27, 2003
    #20
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