A doubt...

[Andrew Thompson]

[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]

* Nonsense in the sense "I do not understand".

I doubt the people that are not capable ..

The issue goes beyond whether they are *capable*
of reading the message.

Perhaps you have never seen a post that was such
'rubbish' that made you think 'could not be bothered
wading through it - next'.

I have. I often let them slide off into the obscurity
they usually do (which by the way, I find *indicative*
of other people's attitudes, as well).

So, specifically, are you saying you have never
encountered a post that you did not even finish
reading, on the basis you could not be bothered
trying to 'read through' what the OP was trying to
communicate?

..of reading a text because "I"
is not capitalized or similar will be able to contribute with much.

The point is whether they contribute at all.

<'rhetorical'>
Why do all these people who criticize my offer of
help, as it exists, not see that?
</'rhetorical'>

I am more likely to stop making such comments, when
I commonly see 'nice'** replies to these people, that completely
ignore all mistakes they make, correctly 'guess' what
they actually mean (where necessary..) etc.

If a thread has a few replies, I will pass it by. Any
extra comment about 'how to get help' would be
redundant.

* Only in the sense that no one person is qualified
to answer for 'them' - personal perspectives are welcome.

** Using the definition of 'nice' my critics seem to be using,
rather than my own. I see nothing 'nasty' about giving tips
on correct use of the language in which one is trying
to communicate a technical problem.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1

 

[Andrew Thompson]

[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]

* Nonsense in the sense "I do not understand".

I doubt the people that are not capable of reading a text because "I"
is not capitalized or similar will be able to contribute with much.

I missed some of the finer implications in your
requoting my *own* comment '..do not understand'.

That was perhaps an oversimplified and eroneous
comment on my part. Maybe it should have been
"..do not understand, or could not be bothered
continuing reading".

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1

 

[Guest]

Perhaps you have never seen a post that was such
'rubbish' that made you think 'could not be bothered
wading through it - next'.

Sure.

Which is completely irrelevant here.

I specifically said:

"If a question is perfectly understandable"

and has given the example of "I" not being capitalized.

Arne

 

[John W. Kennedy]

I am curious how widespread the use is of "to doubt" to mean something
other than "to mistrust information".

In Shakespeare, it often means "fear".

> It confuses me every time I see
the word used to mean simply "to have a question".

Are we sure that the latter usage is an English dialect and not a
mistranslation from some other language?

But "doubt" meaning "a matter to be clarified" is normal in Indian
English. (For multiple historic reasons, English is one of the official
languages of India, is widely spoken by Indians one to another, and is
also employed as a literary language.)

--
John W. Kennedy
"Give up vows and dogmas, and fixed things, and you may grow like That.
....you may come to think a blow bad, because it hurts, and not because
it humiliates. You may come to think murder wrong, because it is
violent, and not because it is unjust."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Ball and the Cross"

 

[Guest]

Sure.

Which is completely irrelevant here.

I specifically said:

"If a question is perfectly understandable"

and has given the example of "I" not being capitalized.

My point is that you have to distinguish.

If the original post is unreadable (50% chance it is
english, 30% french and 20% polish), then it makes sense
to ask the poster to try explain in understandable english.

But if it is small things that does not prevent people
from understanding it, which happen all the time for
people for whom english is not their first language,
then it is both rude to the poster and noise to the
rest of the readers to post correcting this and that.

Arne

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Roedy Green wrote:
...

'different folks - different strokes'

I would draw the line at using things like text speak where people are
not even speaking the standard English of their region. There is no
need to DELIBERATELY obfuscate.

Some might agrue the text speak and l33t speak are
more standard than 'English', since many people that
use either, may grasp text/l33t better than English itself..**

I have not seen people decry the use of various regionalisms from
England. I suspect an unconscious racism is at play.

..but maybe that is merely a kind of ..'technologism'*.

* That sounds vaguely rude.. ;-)

** But I do not look forward to either being used for
messages on usenet. We have good bandwidth and
full keyboards, and there are already enough arconyms
and 'standard abbreviations' we must deal with, when
programming.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1

 

[Andrew Thompson]

...

(shrugs) You also 'vicously'* ...

..and given that had quotes and an asterisk, and was
spelt correctly on the immediate previous line, it would
also have been good if I had got the spelling correct.
Oh well.

 

[Lew]

But if it is small things that does not prevent people
from understanding it, which happen all the time for
people for whom english is not their first language,
then it is both rude to the poster and noise to the
rest of the readers to post correcting this and that.

Proper nouns and the pronoun "I" should be spelled correctly. So should
standard API class names, keywords, and the like. This supports a habit of
mental precision that is necessary and useful for a programmer to possess.

 

[Lew]

But "doubt" meaning "a matter to be clarified" is normal in Indian
English. (For multiple historic reasons, English is one of the official
languages of India, is widely spoken by Indians one to another, and is
also employed as a literary language.)

Yes, I have learned this from this thread, and it has broadened my horizons.

For the record, and to ameliorate Roedy's and probably other people's
concerns, I have always been fascinated by language and linguistics, and this
is one of those very interesting things. I appreciate the education that
resulted from my curiosity.

It is reasonable for speakers of Indian English to be aware that a large
number of English speakers would be thrown by that usage, but that is not any
denigration of their own dialect. It's similar to the fact that I have no
idea what a billabong is, and I bet lots of English-speaking folk have a
similar ignorance. It's all in the interest of enhanced communication.

And no, it's not hazing to ask about an unfamiliar idiom.

 

[Guest]

Proper nouns and the pronoun "I" should be spelled correctly. So should
standard API class names, keywords, and the like. This supports a habit
of mental precision that is necessary and useful for a programmer to
possess.

I don't think so.

Human languages and programming languages are a bit different. Human
languages are much more complex than programming languages. And most
humans are more forgiving of mistakes than compilers are. It is two
different things.

I don't believe that programmers which show up in a suit every day
a work use better coding style either.

Or that programmers with garages that are not stuffed with
tons of useless stuff always refactor well.

Arne

 

[Gordon Beaton]

<'rhetorical'>
Why do all these people who criticize my offer of
help, as it exists, not see that?
</'rhetorical'>

I suggest you rent "Dogville" if you haven't already seen it. The
villagers too thought they were being helpful.

/gordon

--

 

[Andrew Thompson]

I suggest you rent "Dogville" if you haven't already seen it.

I played 'the dog'. ..

..The
villagers too thought they were being helpful.

..and a pity for Grace she did not understand
'mongrel' - I was barking all the time..
"These people are morons, these people are morons,
they feed me, but these people are morons.."

( No. I haven't seen it, but I have Wikipedia. )

 

[lyallex]

how can i store an array of URLs in a file and retrieve them whaen i
select a component in my GUI?

It always amazes me the amount of time people on this list devote to
arguing about something that has nothing to do with Java.

The OP wants to store an array of URLs (not Strings or any other object
AFAICS) so what's wrong with (illustration only)

File repository = new File("...");

public void writeURLs(URL[] urls) throws Exception { //for brevity

ObjectOutputStream urlout =
new ObjectOutputStream(
new FileOutputStream(repository)
);

urlout.writeObject(urls);
}

public URL[] readURLs() throws Exception { // for brevity

URL[] urls = null;
ObjectInputStream urlin =
new ObjectInputStream(
new FileInputStream(repository)
);

urls = (URL[])urlin.readObject();

return urls;
}

Or am I missing something.

 

[Joshua Cranmer]

The main way people even discover that a familiar phrase is not
universally understood is to use it and have people query it.

Since an increasing percentage of the new Java programmers are from
India, I think it prudent of all of us to learn some of the
regionalisms from that part of the world. Personally I get great
delight discovering colourful new vocabulary.

A better way, I suppose, to say what I did is that I should mean the
intersection and not the union, the English that is the true lingua
franca of the Internet and not the regional dialects thereof. I would
like to think that I have excised my regionalisms from my posts, but
given how embedded they are, I am sure that some of my words must seem
as foreign to Indians as the usage of `doubt' to mean `question' did to
many of us.

I would draw the line at using things like text speak where people are
not even speaking the standard English of their region. There is no
need to DELIBERATELY obfuscate.

I would draw the line slightly higher: I frown upon the use of
expletives and extreme slang terms, although not as much as text or l33t
speak.

I have not seen people decry the use of various regionalisms from
England. I suspect an unconscious racism is at play.

As I said before, I tend to disagree with the use of regionalisms in
general, although I am more used to the British regionalism than to,
say, the Indian ones, so I might not notice them as much.

This is an international newsgroup. We should not be giving some
nations privileged status.

My intent had not been to do this, but my words were probably too
ambiguous (or more likely, a case of me not thinking through things
enough before posting). However, since it is the (unfortunate) case that
most people expect English to be used, text should probably be in as
proper English as possible to facilitate those who use automatic
translators (and those who do use them should probably indicate the fact
so that others do not chastise them when the translators are imprecise).

 

[Patricia Shanahan]

Joshua Cranmer wrote:
....

A better way, I suppose, to say what I did is that I should mean the
intersection and not the union, the English that is the true lingua
franca of the Internet and not the regional dialects thereof. I would
like to think that I have excised my regionalisms from my posts, but
given how embedded they are, I am sure that some of my words must seem
as foreign to Indians as the usage of `doubt' to mean `question' did to
many of us.

....

Intersection does not work, because the incompatibilities between the
dialects would leave us with no way to express a lot of things.

The most obvious example is the quality associated with frequency of
light waves, with values such as "red", and "blue". There is no correct
way to spell it in the intersection. Allowing the union seems much more
practical. Then I can choose between "colour" and "color", both of which
will be understood by most readers of any dialect of English.

What should I call the element with chemical symbol "Al", atomic number
13? Neither "aluminium" nor "aluminum" is in the intersection.

How about the leather bag with a shoulder strap in which I carry my
wallet, keys etc.? In US English it is a "purse", in English English it
is a "handbag", but what should I call it in the intersection?

Patricia