C++ market

Discussion in 'C++' started by cpisztest@gmail.com, May 13, 2014.

  1. Guest

    Are you guys finding that more and more you are given those "Here is this mess from 10-20 years ago that needs fixing" projects as opposed to the "Let's make this new thing" projects? Or is it just me?

    It seems more and more that there isn't new code being written and only old code to be fixed in C++ and the new stuff, to my detriment, is being done in Java and .NET, save some server stuff where performance is critical, some scientific, and games.

    Of course there is always some amount of fixing others code, and debugging stuff, etc. in any job, and it is also dependent upon experience level, but it seems that is all there is. I wanna make my own bugs and stop fixing other people's!
     
    , May 13, 2014
    #1
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  2. Stefan Ram Guest

    writes:
    >Are you guys finding that more and more you are given those
    >"Here is this mess from 10-20 years ago that needs fixing"
    >projects as opposed to the "Let's make this new thing"
    >projects? Or is it just me?


    10 - 20 years ago it was written:

    »Today's C++ programs will be tomorrow's unmaintainable
    legacy code. As [GWS 94] says of C++:

    "The seeds of software disasters for decades to
    come have already been planted and well fertilised."«

    retrieved in 2007 from:
    http://burks.brighton.ac.uk/burks/pcinfo/progdocs/cppcrit/index005.htm

    >It seems more and more that there isn't new code being
    >written and only old code to be fixed in C++ and the new
    >stuff, to my detriment, is being done in Java and .NET, save
    >some server stuff where performance is critical, some
    >scientific, and games.


    C++ has lost more than 3 % in the last year from 9.196 %
    down to 5.986 on TIOBE, C++'s rank: 1994:2, 2004:3, and 2014:4.
     
    Stefan Ram, May 13, 2014
    #2
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  3. Guest

    On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 5:12:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
    > Are you guys finding that more and more you are given those "Here is this mess from 10-20 years ago that needs fixing" projects as opposed to the "Let's make this new thing" projects? Or is it just me?
    >
    >
    >
    > It seems more and more that there isn't new code being written and only old code to be fixed in C++ and the new stuff, to my detriment, is being done in Java and .NET, save some server stuff where performance is critical, some scientific, and games.
    >
    >
    >
    > Of course there is always some amount of fixing others code, and debugging stuff, etc. in any job, and it is also dependent upon experience level, but it seems that is all there is. I wanna make my own bugs and stop fixing other people's!


    In that case you should either start a company or join a small
    company. There aren't many jobs at big companies that will be
    satisfying for you.


    Brian
    Ebenezer Enterprises - Where the Spirit of the L-RD is
    there is liberty.
    http://webEbenezer.net
     
    , May 14, 2014
    #3
  4. Jorgen Grahn Guest

    On Tue, 2014-05-13, wrote:

    > Are you guys finding that more and more you are given those "Here is
    > this mess from 10-20 years ago that needs fixing" projects as opposed
    > to the "Let's make this new thing" projects? Or is it just me?


    Depends very much on what business you're in. For me it has always
    been like that, since I work with long-lived products (telecom servers).

    And it's natural for most development to be about extending mature
    products. Unfortunately that often means the code is a mess ...

    /Jorgen

    --
    // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
    \X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
     
    Jorgen Grahn, May 14, 2014
    #4
  5. On 5/13/2014 6:12 PM, wrote:
    > [..]I wanna make my own bugs and stop fixing other people's!


    How true that is! And where our code shall be in 20 years? In the
    hands of other programmers who will likely have the same attitude, if
    we're lucky. Or in a virtual trash bin. I'd rather do everything to
    achieve the former...

    V
    --
    I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
     
    Victor Bazarov, May 14, 2014
    #5
  6. Jorgen Grahn Guest

    On Wed, 2014-05-14, Victor Bazarov wrote:
    > On 5/13/2014 6:12 PM, wrote:
    >> [..]I wanna make my own bugs and stop fixing other people's!

    >
    > How true that is! And where our code shall be in 20 years? In the
    > hands of other programmers who will likely have the same attitude, if
    > we're lucky. Or in a virtual trash bin. I'd rather do everything to
    > achieve the former...


    Incidentally, the best way to keep out of the trash bin is to do
    maintenance programming. Spend 6 months trying to write something
    new, and lots of disasters can happen along the way. If you spend 2
    weeks finding and fixing a bug you can assume someone will benefit.

    /Jorgen

    --
    // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
    \X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
     
    Jorgen Grahn, May 14, 2014
    #6
  7. Stefan Ram Guest

    Jorgen Grahn <> writes:
    >Incidentally, the best way to keep out of the trash bin is to do
    >maintenance programming. Spend 6 months trying to write something
    >new, and lots of disasters can happen along the way. If you spend 2
    >weeks finding and fixing a bug you can assume someone will benefit.


    »Single worst strategic mistake you could ever make?
    Rewriting code from scratch«

    Things You Should Never Do, Part I - Joel on Software
     
    Stefan Ram, May 14, 2014
    #7
  8. Melzzzzz Guest

    On Tue, 13 May 2014 15:12:03 -0700 (PDT)
    wrote:

    > Are you guys finding that more and more you are given those "Here is
    > this mess from 10-20 years ago that needs fixing" projects as opposed
    > to the "Let's make this new thing" projects? Or is it just me?


    Examples? You can always start project by yourself :p
    There is huge code base written, so writing from scratch
    is really not practical ;)

    >
    > It seems more and more that there isn't new code being written and
    > only old code to be fixed in C++ and the new stuff, to my detriment,
    > is being done in Java and .NET, save some server stuff where
    > performance is critical, some scientific, and games.


    What new stuff? Same business applications all over again ;0?

    >
    > Of course there is always some amount of fixing others code, and
    > debugging stuff, etc. in any job, and it is also dependent upon
    > experience level, but it seems that is all there is. I wanna make my
    > own bugs and stop fixing other people's!


    Then start new project! It is really difficult to get job
    to write something new when all companies have already code base...

    --
    Click OK to continue...
     
    Melzzzzz, May 14, 2014
    #8
  9. Melzzzzz Guest

    On 13 May 2014 22:22:44 GMT
    -berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:

    >
    > C++ has lost more than 3 % in the last year from 9.196 %
    > down to 5.986 on TIOBE, C++'s rank: 1994:2, 2004:3, and 2014:4.
    >

    And you really believe that C is first, Java second and Objective-C
    third? ;)


    --
    Click OK to continue...
     
    Melzzzzz, May 14, 2014
    #9
  10. David Brown Guest

    On 14/05/14 15:19, Melzzzzz wrote:
    > On 13 May 2014 22:22:44 GMT
    > -berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> C++ has lost more than 3 % in the last year from 9.196 %
    >> down to 5.986 on TIOBE, C++'s rank: 1994:2, 2004:3, and 2014:4.
    >>

    > And you really believe that C is first, Java second and Objective-C
    > third? ;)
    >
    >


    TIOBE must be the most pointless indicator of programming language usage
    or popularity ever invented. It is based mainly on the number of google
    searches people make on a language.

    So every time someone searches for the letter "C", they increase C's
    popularity as a programming language - even if it is "what element has
    the chemical symbol C?".

    Every time someone thinks "I'm going to write an IPlod application and
    get rich quick", searches for the languages used by Apple, and runs away
    screaming when they see the syntax for Objective C, the popularity of
    Objective C increases.

    Every time someone uses C++ to write a program that works, nothing
    happens to the C++ ratings on TIOBE.

    At best, TIOBE gives a rough rating to "number of people considering a
    language" times "proportion of users who need help".
     
    David Brown, May 14, 2014
    #10
  11. Guest

    On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:08:03 PM UTC, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
    > On Wed, 2014-05-14, Victor Bazarov wrote:


    >
    > > How true that is! And where our code shall be in 20 years? In the
    > > hands of other programmers who will likely have the same attitude, if
    > > we're lucky. Or in a virtual trash bin. I'd rather do everything to
    > > achieve the former...

    >
    > Incidentally, the best way to keep out of the trash bin is to do
    > maintenance programming.


    There's nothing wrong with maintenance work ...
    but playing it safe gets old eventually.

    > Spend 6 months trying to write something
    > new, and lots of disasters can happen along the way. If you spend 2
    > weeks finding and fixing a bug you can assume someone will benefit.
    >


    New things are more difficult, but the rewards are
    greater when things do work out. Fear-based decision
    making isn't the way I want to live. Dreams are
    important and I encourage people to prepare themselves
    for good stuff. In some cases that may mean starting
    a company so you have a vehicle ready when you need it.

    Brian
    Ebenezer Enterprises - Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
    http://webEbenezer.net
     
    , May 14, 2014
    #11
  12. James Kanze Guest

    On Tuesday, 13 May 2014 23:12:03 UTC+1, wrote:
    > Are you guys finding that more and more you are given those
    > "Here is this mess from 10-20 years ago that needs fixing"
    > projects as opposed to the "Let's make this new thing"
    > projects?


    There's some of that, but...

    Most of the work I do at present is on new code. The code has
    to integrate into existing code, but it's either completely new
    functionality, or its a complete rewrite, throwing away large
    parts of the existing code.

    > Or is it just me?


    > It seems more and more that there isn't new code being written
    > and only old code to be fixed in C++ and the new stuff, to my
    > detriment, is being done in Java and .NET, save some server
    > stuff where performance is critical, some scientific, and
    > games.


    C++ probably isn't the ideal language for a quick and showy
    front end. But it's still widely used for the code behind the
    quick and showy front end, which does the actual work. And
    while it's rarely totally new, there are almost always new
    features which require new code, and old code which has reached
    the end of its lifetime, and gets totally rewritten (without
    much regard to what was there before). Remember, code has
    a maximum lifetime of about 10 years; if you have to change
    something in code older than that, you're usually better off
    rewriting it from scratch.

    --
    James
     
    James Kanze, May 15, 2014
    #12
  13. Jorgen Grahn Guest

    On Wed, 2014-05-14, wrote:
    > On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:08:03 PM UTC, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
    >> On Wed, 2014-05-14, Victor Bazarov wrote:

    >
    >>
    >> > How true that is! And where our code shall be in 20 years? In the
    >> > hands of other programmers who will likely have the same attitude, if
    >> > we're lucky. Or in a virtual trash bin. I'd rather do everything to
    >> > achieve the former...

    >>
    >> Incidentally, the best way to keep out of the trash bin is to do
    >> maintenance programming.

    >
    > There's nothing wrong with maintenance work ...
    > but playing it safe gets old eventually.


    I wouldn't call it "playing it safe", but perhaps we have different
    definitions. I mentally included roughly any changes to a system
    which already has users.

    I could just as well call it "taking responsibility".

    /Jorgen

    --
    // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
    \X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
     
    Jorgen Grahn, May 15, 2014
    #13
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