M
McKirahan
[snip]
[snip]
Now you know another.
[snip]
Now you know another.
J
Jeff Cochran
I've always felt there was a fallacy in this debugging process, since
the same result is achieved by response.writes of the key variables in
most cases. Primal Script actually allowed a better debugging
process, but even then, there's a lot less debugging that you can do
(or have to do) in Classic ASP than .NET or C or any other
environment.
Of course, when I started doing any programming you basically had no
debuggeres anywhere, so I guess it's what you get used to...
Jeff
the same result is achieved by response.writes of the key variables in
most cases. Primal Script actually allowed a better debugging
process, but even then, there's a lot less debugging that you can do
(or have to do) in Classic ASP than .NET or C or any other
environment.
Of course, when I started doing any programming you basically had no
debuggeres anywhere, so I guess it's what you get used to...
Jeff
C
Christopher Williams
Hello everyone,
I thought I would chime in here since I have been around the ASP scene as
long as anyone out there. Never been a big player in the newsgroups but I
have made appearances over the years.
When I 1st started using ASP all that was available was Visual Interdev 1.
It was difficult to even figure out how to use and some of the Design Time
Controls in it had issues. I basically had to come up with way to code on my
own. Then came along Visual Interdev 6 and my company at the time sent
myself and two other guys to a 2 day 32x training seminar in Long Island. I
ate a lot of really good cookies at that seminar and met some really smart
people but Visual Interdev 6 turned out to be a frigin nightmare. They tried
to make everything all object oriented and it really did not work out. We
stopped Interdev 6 it at the company I worked at. Otherwise we would have
never got anything productive done.
Over the years debugging sort of became a manual process and to be honest I
have never had much of a reason to debug with classic ASP. A few issues come
up now and then and you check out the line error, response write something
out, maybe do a response.end and you figure out the problem pretty quickly.
Like someone said above you get used to that and to tell you the truth it is
not a hassle or a problem whatsoever in my mind.
Then newer versions of visual studio come out and becomes possible to debug.
I have spent a lot of time with it. I find the debuggin to be a pain in the
ass, it slows me down, and I can write faster/better code with some of the
in house code generators and tools I have developed over the years than
using the features of the VS IDE. I don't edit strictly in notepad per say.
I generally use a nice editor like dreamweaver or visual studio strictly for
the color coding. I use wysiwyg editors sometimes to speed up the process of
html generation but I am comfortable in the middle of any complex notepad
code situation if I get stuck there. I basically use whatever tool, code
snippet, book, or article in my possesion to get the job done.
Someone on here said that if someone isn't using the VS.NET IDE and
debugging with their classic asp that they are not doing their company
justice or something like that. What a bunch of horseshit that is. Most of
the top guys in the classic ASP world use a little bit of everything to
design their code and have a great library of collected goodies from over
the years that makes them better at what they do than anyone out there.
Anyone that puts all their faith in one IDE is making a mistake. Anyone that
says you should be debugging classic asp code with VS.NET or you are not
doing your company justice making a pretty strong statement.
Now, I am big into ASP.NET as well and yes I pretty much use
Visual.Studio.NET with that and yes I use all the code behind, webforms,
debugging features.. etc etc And it all works nicely, but something about
debugging classic asp in that envirnoment seems to me to be flat out ODD. It
is more work to set it all up than it is even worth in the 1st place and
classic ASP was never meant to be taken to that level nor is there any
reason to debug all that much if you have half a clue what you are doing.
As far as my business goes. More than selling a few software apps I spend
most of my time as private contractor doing large programming jobs here and
there. I am quite busy, get paid fairly high dollar, and never have had any
company have any issues with how I code or the fact that I do not debug in
VS.NET. My most recent 3 jobs were with Pitney Bowes, Lockheed Martin , and
Symbol Technologies and they were all extremely satified with the work I did
for them. I totally expect repeat work and I have plenty to do in the months
to come. I guess I am not doing these places justice since I don't debug my
ASP code in VS.NET. Yeah Right !!
Take Care,
Chris Williams
http://www.cjwsoft.com/about.asp
I thought I would chime in here since I have been around the ASP scene as
long as anyone out there. Never been a big player in the newsgroups but I
have made appearances over the years.
When I 1st started using ASP all that was available was Visual Interdev 1.
It was difficult to even figure out how to use and some of the Design Time
Controls in it had issues. I basically had to come up with way to code on my
own. Then came along Visual Interdev 6 and my company at the time sent
myself and two other guys to a 2 day 32x training seminar in Long Island. I
ate a lot of really good cookies at that seminar and met some really smart
people but Visual Interdev 6 turned out to be a frigin nightmare. They tried
to make everything all object oriented and it really did not work out. We
stopped Interdev 6 it at the company I worked at. Otherwise we would have
never got anything productive done.
Over the years debugging sort of became a manual process and to be honest I
have never had much of a reason to debug with classic ASP. A few issues come
up now and then and you check out the line error, response write something
out, maybe do a response.end and you figure out the problem pretty quickly.
Like someone said above you get used to that and to tell you the truth it is
not a hassle or a problem whatsoever in my mind.
Then newer versions of visual studio come out and becomes possible to debug.
I have spent a lot of time with it. I find the debuggin to be a pain in the
ass, it slows me down, and I can write faster/better code with some of the
in house code generators and tools I have developed over the years than
using the features of the VS IDE. I don't edit strictly in notepad per say.
I generally use a nice editor like dreamweaver or visual studio strictly for
the color coding. I use wysiwyg editors sometimes to speed up the process of
html generation but I am comfortable in the middle of any complex notepad
code situation if I get stuck there. I basically use whatever tool, code
snippet, book, or article in my possesion to get the job done.
Someone on here said that if someone isn't using the VS.NET IDE and
debugging with their classic asp that they are not doing their company
justice or something like that. What a bunch of horseshit that is. Most of
the top guys in the classic ASP world use a little bit of everything to
design their code and have a great library of collected goodies from over
the years that makes them better at what they do than anyone out there.
Anyone that puts all their faith in one IDE is making a mistake. Anyone that
says you should be debugging classic asp code with VS.NET or you are not
doing your company justice making a pretty strong statement.
Now, I am big into ASP.NET as well and yes I pretty much use
Visual.Studio.NET with that and yes I use all the code behind, webforms,
debugging features.. etc etc And it all works nicely, but something about
debugging classic asp in that envirnoment seems to me to be flat out ODD. It
is more work to set it all up than it is even worth in the 1st place and
classic ASP was never meant to be taken to that level nor is there any
reason to debug all that much if you have half a clue what you are doing.
As far as my business goes. More than selling a few software apps I spend
most of my time as private contractor doing large programming jobs here and
there. I am quite busy, get paid fairly high dollar, and never have had any
company have any issues with how I code or the fact that I do not debug in
VS.NET. My most recent 3 jobs were with Pitney Bowes, Lockheed Martin , and
Symbol Technologies and they were all extremely satified with the work I did
for them. I totally expect repeat work and I have plenty to do in the months
to come. I guess I am not doing these places justice since I don't debug my
ASP code in VS.NET. Yeah Right !!
Take Care,
Chris Williams
http://www.cjwsoft.com/about.asp
McKirahan said:
B
Bob Barrows [MVP]
Christopher said:
LOL Some??
Or just use the html elements, right?
I'm not sure I understand why. Interdev is still a pretty good code editor
as long as you delete the _ScriptLibrary folder from every project you
create. Why pay for another code editor if you already have a pretty good
one.
I tried one project using the DTC's and failed miserably (yeah, the DTC's
sucked). Since then, I've used everything but DTC's in Interdev. Source
control, code highlighting, Intellisense, autocompletion, debugging (when it
worked) all improved my productivity. Given that we had a MSDN subscription,
we never had a reason to pay for any other code editor. However, one of the
other developers on our staff started using FrontPage and Dreamweaver ...
there isn't a singe one of his apps I haven't had to rewrite since he left
the company.
While debugging worked, I loved it, and I miss it now that it's stopped
working (not enough to spend several days trying to get it to work again
<wink>). But, as you said, there are other ways to debug
So, I like VI6, but YMMV.
Bob Barrows
PS. Dreamweaver, Ultradev, etc have similar code bloat/poor code issues with
many of their builtin controls, so I don't see them as
a huge improvement over VI6.