Java tops C as most popular language in developer index

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Lynn McGuire, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Browsers will only run Java in applets, which have too many restrictions
    on what they can do to be useful for anything much other than little
    games or demos. (I'm sure there's an exceptional case somewhere).

    Javascript on the other hand is a clumsy but highly flexible way of adding
    interactivity to web pages, uploading data from users, and sending it
    back to servers.
     
    Malcolm McLean, Aug 19, 2013
    #41
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  2. Lynn McGuire

    Ian Collins Guest

    One common and useful use for Java applets is remote consoles. All the
    server types I manage use a Java applet for their consoles.
    It's far from clumsy.
     
    Ian Collins, Aug 19, 2013
    #42
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  3. Not normally, but it can be:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Web_Toolkit#Development_with_GWT

    Just about any compiler translates some language into a very different
    language.
     
    Keith Thompson, Aug 19, 2013
    #43
  4. Lynn McGuire

    Lynn McGuire Guest

    Yes. Please see http://www.gwtproject.org/ to
    understand how Google apps, specifically gmail,
    works.

    "The GWT SDK contains the Java API libraries,
    compiler, and development server. It lets you
    write client-side applications in Java and deploy
    them as JavaScript."

    Lynn
     
    Lynn McGuire, Aug 19, 2013
    #44
  5. Lynn McGuire

    Lynn McGuire Guest

    It is my understanding that Google is working
    on their own JIT file format nowadays so that
    developers can release just an EXE equivalent
    file for all platforms. Just Endian-ness comes
    to mind with problems with this.

    Lynn
     
    Lynn McGuire, Aug 19, 2013
    #45
  6. Lynn McGuire

    Lynn McGuire Guest

    Just remembered that Google is trying to replace
    Javscript with Dart:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dart_(programming_language)

    Here is the Javascript for Gmail (you will need
    to view the page source to see it):

    https://mail.google.com/_/mail-stat...qAMSAxbhf0rNz3tjPQ4p8t_y4P8QDGCKGKgHs4GQg/d=1

    I would not call that a trivial amount of code.

    Lynn
     
    Lynn McGuire, Aug 19, 2013
    #46
  7. Javascript was originally designed for adding a few trivial interactive
    features to html. It blossomed, with people producing libraries like
    JQuery which are huge hunks of code.
    However we're not yet at the stage where most people do heavy-duty
    processing with Javascript. Whilst there might be lots of lines of
    code, generally they're processing strings or putting up UI elements,
    which a modern processor can slice through easily. They're not doing
    high end graphics, signals processing, NP-complete problems, or other
    things that soak up the cycles.
     
    Malcolm McLean, Aug 19, 2013
    #47
  8. Lynn McGuire

    James Kuyper Guest

    On 08/19/2013 04:50 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
    ....
    I guarantee you that, if you're right that people are not doing those
    things with Javascript, it's probably only because they think it's not
    suited to such uses - it's not because there's no one who would want to.
     
    James Kuyper, Aug 19, 2013
    #48
  9. (snip)
    I don't know that they are using Javascript, but whatever Facebook
    uses it can be very slow. I usually logoff when I am not using it,
    as otherwise it uses up all the CPU time on my system.

    Maybe most don't do heavy-duty processing, but it only takes one.

    -- glen
     
    glen herrmannsfeldt, Aug 19, 2013
    #49
  10. Lynn McGuire

    Phil Carmody Guest

    $ wget 'https://mail.google.com/_/mail-stat...AMSAxbhf0rNz\3tjPQ4p8t_y4P8QDGCKGKgHs4GQg/d=1'

    --2013-08-20 11:40:54-- https://mail.google.com/_/mail-stat...AMSAxbhf0rNz\3tjPQ4p8t_y4P8QDGCKGKgHs4GQg/d=1
    Resolving mail.google.com... 173.194.32.22, 173.194.32.21, 2a00:1450:400f:800::1016
    Connecting to mail.google.com|173.194.32.22|:443... connected.
    HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 400 Bad Request
    2013-08-20 11:40:54 ERROR 400: Bad Request.


    $ w3m 'https://mail.google.com/_/mail-stat...AMSAxbhf0rNz\3tjPQ4p8t_y4P8QDGCKGKgHs4GQg/d=1'
    """
    Google Error


    Not Found

    The requested URL was not found on this server.

    """


    But I'm not a quitter!

    $ elinks 'https://mail.google.com/_/mail-stat...AMSAxbhf0rNz\3tjPQ4p8t_y4P8QDGCKGKgHs4GQg/d=1' | more

    """
    Google Error


    Not Found

    The requested URL was not found on this server.
    """

    OK, I'm a quitter. 0 bytes of code. All perfectly readable.

    Phil
     
    Phil Carmody, Aug 20, 2013
    #50
  11. Lynn McGuire

    Phil Carmody Guest

    I suspect the reason Malcolm dropped into my killfile was the inordinate
    amount of bollocks he comes up with, and this is a good example. Just
    find a modern HTML5-based phone, and look at the source code of some of
    the web-apps. In particular look for ones that are quick ports of pre-
    HTML5 apps.

    Why do you think that so much effort has been put into optimising
    Javascript interpreters/compilers in the last half-decade? It's because
    people are doing stupid amounts (and that's not "stupid" being used
    for emphasis, it's "stupid" as in "stupid") of computational heavy
    lifting in JavaScript. All the JIT work has been absolutely necessary.

    Phil
     
    Phil Carmody, Aug 20, 2013
    #51
  12. Lynn McGuire

    Noob Guest

    Noob, Aug 20, 2013
    #52
  13. Lynn McGuire

    Noob Guest

    Is that a fact?

    http://js1k.com/2013-spring/demos

    cf.
    http://js1k.com/2013-spring/demo/1451
    http://js1k.com/2013-spring/demo/1459
     
    Noob, Aug 20, 2013
    #53
  14. Lynn McGuire

    Lynn McGuire Guest

    That is obfuscated code.

    Lynn
     
    Lynn McGuire, Aug 20, 2013
    #54
  15. Those are 1980s style little procedural graphics routines, remarkably written
    in less than 1K of Javascript. They are very clever, but most of them aren't
    especially processor intensive. Life for example requires only 8 additions and
    a coupe of comparisons per cell per step.
    Most of cycles will be spent in rasterising. Whilst it's possible to write
    rasterising code in Javascript, typically this isn't done. Javascript calls
    graphics routines that are written in another language, typically C.
     
    Malcolm McLean, Aug 21, 2013
    #55
  16. Lynn McGuire

    Phil Carmody Guest

    Bloody emacs!
    Oh my god, that's awesome. The best thing is that it doesn't seem to be
    uglified (obfuscated), just minified. So in theory it could be returned
    to a fairly readable form quite easily. But that's a heck of a lot of
    javascript. I wonder how much of it does client-side validation that
    needs to be (but isn't necessarily) done at the server too?

    Phil
     
    Phil Carmody, Aug 22, 2013
    #56
  17. Lynn McGuire

    Phil Carmody Guest

    It only looks minified to me, not obfuscated. Sure, minimal-length
    variable and functions names are a trivial obfuscation, but that's
    not the primary goal, simply shrinking the source is.

    Phil
     
    Phil Carmody, Aug 22, 2013
    #57
  18. Lynn McGuire

    Lynn McGuire Guest

    I'm betting that most of it is user
    interface code, probably GWT.

    Lynn
     
    Lynn McGuire, Aug 22, 2013
    #58
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