newsgroup conflict?

[Zach]

I don't know the back story but I see a lot of posts about a Mr. Han
from China and Richard Heathfield. Can these conflicts perhaps be
handled with private email? It gives a bad impression to people
seeking help when they see a C newsgroup filled with all these off-
topic posts I think. I hope this doesn't further stir the pot, but I
am genuinely curious. I've never seen it in another technical
newsgroup on USENET.

Zach

 

[Keith Thompson]

I don't know the back story but I see a lot of posts about a Mr. Han
from China and Richard Heathfield. Can these conflicts perhaps be
handled with private email? It gives a bad impression to people
seeking help when they see a C newsgroup filled with all these off-
topic posts I think. I hope this doesn't further stir the pot, but I
am genuinely curious. I've never seen it in another technical
newsgroup on USENET.

"Han from China" is a troll, with a history of lies, forgery, and
abuse. Multiple attempts to reason with him have failed.

Richard Heathfield is one of the most valuable contributors to this
newsgroup; the trolls' apparent hatred of him is, as far as I can
tell, completely irrational.

I find that judicious use of a killfile makes this newsgroup much more
pleasant. Since it's an unmoderated group, there's really not much
else that can be done.

 

[Bill Cunningham]

I don't know the back story but I see a lot of posts about a Mr. Han
from China and Richard Heathfield. Can these conflicts perhaps be
handled with private email? It gives a bad impression to people

I'm tired of the spamming going to this group too. Buy this and that and
so.

Bill

 

[Kenny McCormack]

I don't know the back story but I see a lot of posts about a Mr. Han
from China and Richard Heathfield. Can these conflicts perhaps be
handled with private email? It gives a bad impression to people
seeking help when they see a C newsgroup filled with all these off-
topic posts I think. I hope this doesn't further stir the pot, but I
am genuinely curious. I've never seen it in another technical
newsgroup on USENET.

You're right about that last.

And you have to ask yourself this. Suppose we grant what the topicality
police say - that it is all the trolls fault. Obviously, this is silly
and we don't grant it, but suppose we did.

Then you have to ask: Why is this group so susceptible to being trolled?
Why does it happen? Why doesn't it happen in any other technical
newsgroup? I think you are led to the inevitable conclusion that there
is something inherently sick about the culture, that there is a reason
we troll here and nowhere else.

 

[Martin Ambuhl]

I don't know the back story but I see a lot of posts about a Mr. Han
from China and Richard Heathfield. Can these conflicts perhaps be
handled with private email? It gives a bad impression to people
seeking help when they see a C newsgroup filled with all these off-
topic posts I think. I hope this doesn't further stir the pot, but I
am genuinely curious. I've never seen it in another technical
newsgroup on USENET.

It is unlikely to happen that this will go to email, and for a very
reason. "Han from China" is a purposely disruptive person. Many
people. including Richard Heathfield and me, have him killfiled. That
means that we have no interest in seeing any of the crap he posts, not
_will_ we see it unless someone else quotes it. Consider
1) "Han from China" intends to disrupt the newsgroup. He is highly
unlikely to adopt behavior to preserve any semblance of peace here.
2) Many of us have no desire to even see anything "Han from China"
writes. We are hardly likely to want to engage in email conversations
with him.

I suggest that you learn about killfiles and place purposely disruptive
persons (also know as "trolls") in it. "Han from China", along with
"Kenny McCormack", Richard "(e-mail address removed)", and "Antoninus Twink"
have all made it clear that their intentions in the newsgroup are
hostile to it. They all belong in your killfile.

 

[Antoninus Twink]

I haven't the faintest idea what his beef is

Almost exactly the words used by George W. Bush about the Iraqi
journalist who threw a shoe at him recently.

The parallels are striking: both men are completely lacking in self
awareness. GWB simply couldn't imagine why someone might be upset with
him for invading his country and killing thousands of his countrymen.
Likewise Heathfield can't imagine why so many people bristle when
confronted with his arrogance and condescension, and his attempts to
rule this newsgroup as a personal fiefdom.

 

[Default User]

I suggest that you learn about killfiles and place purposely
disruptive persons (also know as "trolls") in it.

Zach is one of the people using Google Groups. That system doesn't come
with killfile ability natively. There are browser plug-ins to provide
capability along those lines. I haven't used any, and I don't know what
browsers have such add-ons available.




Brian

 

[CBFalconer]

Zach is one of the people using Google Groups. That system
doesn't come with killfile ability natively. There are browser
plug-ins to provide capability along those lines. I haven't used
any, and I don't know what browsers have such add-ons available.

Then I suggest Zach go and get a suitable newsreader (Thunderbird
from mozilla.com, free, is one). He can also select a news server
(sample list follows). He can follow this advice on Windoze,
Linux, or Macs. Then he will avoid the penalties of googling.

If he is in some corporate environment where they block new
servers, that is another story.

Some free news servers. I use motzarella and gmane.
<http://www.teranews.com> (1 time charge) (free)
<http://news.aioe.org> (free)
<http://dotsrc.org> (free)
<http://www.x-privat.org/international.php> (free)
<http://motzarella.org/?language=en> (free)
<http://dotsrc.org/usenet/>(via://dotsrc.org/usenet/)(free)
<http://gmane.org/> (mail-lists via news) (free)
<http://www.newsfeeds.com/signup.htm> (pay)
<http://www.individual.net/ (low pay)

 

[Zach]

Then I suggest Zach go and get a suitable newsreader (Thunderbird
from mozilla.com, free, is one). He can also select a news server
(sample list follows). He can follow this advice on Windoze,
Linux, or Macs. Then he will avoid the penalties of googling.

If he is in some corporate environment where they block new
servers, that is another story.

Some free news servers. I use motzarella and gmane.
<http://www.teranews.com> (1 time charge) (free)
<http://news.aioe.org> (free)
<http://dotsrc.org> (free)
<http://www.x-privat.org/international.php> (free)
<http://motzarella.org/?language=en> (free)
<http://dotsrc.org/usenet/>(via://dotsrc.org/usenet/)(free)
<http://gmane.org/> (mail-lists via news) (free)
<http://www.newsfeeds.com/signup.htm> (pay)
<http://www.individual.net/ (low pay)

Thanks Chuck. I will try to setup mutt to use one of these free
providers. I have been meaning to try out mutt anyways.

Zach

 

[Zach]

Zach said:


Neither do I.


Feel free to try. I haven't the faintest idea what his beef is, and
I'm not overly interested in finding out, by email or by any other
means.

If you have a problem with his articles, killfile him. If you have a
problem with my articles, killfile me. Problem solved, either way.

Ah I see. I have no problems with your posts Richard. I would like to
get a copy of your book but it seems to be out of print. Any ideas?

Zach

 

[Zach]

"Han from China" is a troll, with a history of lies, forgery, and
abuse. Multiple attempts to reason with him have failed.

Richard Heathfield is one of the most valuable contributors to this
newsgroup; the trolls' apparent hatred of him is, as far as I can
tell, completely irrational.

I find that judicious use of a killfile makes this newsgroup much more
pleasant. Since it's an unmoderated group, there's really not much
else that can be done.

Thanks for the warning Keith.

Zach

 

[Keith Thompson]

Thanks Chuck. I will try to setup mutt to use one of these free
providers. I have been meaning to try out mutt anyways.

<OT>
mutt doesn't do nntp by default. A patch is available, but a quick
glance at the README suggests you might be better off looking for a
real newsreader.
</OT>

 

[Larry Gates]

Sure this isn't news.individual.net ?

Thanks Chuck. I will try to setup mutt to use one of these free
providers. I have been meaning to try out mutt anyways.

Zach

If you've got fifteen bucks to spend, you can get an nsp that filters out
spam. news.individual.net made clc readable for me.
--
larry gates

/* This bit of chicanery makes a unary function followed by
a parenthesis into a function with one argument, highest precedence. */
-- Larry Wall in toke.c from the perl source code

 

[Larry Gates]

Ah I see. I have no problems with your posts Richard. I would like to
get a copy of your book but it seems to be out of print. Any ideas?

Zach

I'd miss it, but I'll sell you mine.

Tell you what, you get me a Harbison and Steele 5, I'll get you
_Unleashed_.
--
larry gates

I would estimate that the number of programs it breaks in the world
will be less than 10. As long as one of those 10 isn't CGI.pm, we're
probably okay.
-- Larry Wall in <[email protected]>

 

[Guest]

I suggest that you learn about killfiles and place purposely disruptive
persons (also know as "trolls") in it.  "Han from China", along with
"Kenny McCormack", Richard "(e-mail address removed)", and "Antoninus Twink"
have all made it clear that their intentions in the newsgroup are
hostile to it.  They all belong in your killfile.

Richard posts good stuff some of the time. Even if I disagree with
some of his opions (say about debuggers) they seem to be sincerely
held and rationally argued about.

--
Nick Keighley

"Have I discovered what consiousness is yet?
Not at all, but I'm getting more deeply perplexed."
-- Susan Blackmore

 

[Antoninus Twink]

Thanks for the warning Keith.

You may want to bear in mind that "Keith Tompson" is highly partisan in
the "conflict" you mention.

Why not think for yourself? Browse some of the posts by Heathfield and
by Han and decide for yourself which of them produces more helpful
contributions, rather than accepting Keith's polemic at face value?

 

[Antoninus Twink]

Thanks for the warning Keith.

You may want to bear in mind that "Keith Tompson" is highly partisan in
the "conflict" you mention.

Why not think for yourself? Browse some of the posts by Heathfield and
by Han and decide for yourself which of them produces more helpful
contributions, rather than accepting Keith's polemic at face value?

 

[vippstar]

I don't know the back story but I see a lot of posts about a Mr. Han
from China and Richard Heathfield.

You see posts from Han from China and Richard Heathfield. That means,
to some point, your client works. Here's the story: Han from China is
some idiot who thought that spending some time to recall discussions
would turn him into a "master troll". Be aware of him because if you
piss him off he'll threaten to release your book in PDF format on
rapidshare, megaupload _AND_ P2P!

Can these conflicts perhaps be
handled with private email?

"Yes, they could". Is that the answer you were seeking?

It gives a bad impression to people
seeking help when they see a C newsgroup filled with all these off-
topic posts I think.

People who seek help from a newsgroup are likely either to search it,
which means they won't see off-topic posts (with effective searches)
OR they'll make their own thread. They won't start reading all the
messages posted in hope that they'll find the solution to their
problem. So you don't have a point.

I hope this doesn't further stir the pot, but I
am genuinely curious.

No, you're genuinely stupid. If you were genuinely curious, you'd do
your own research.

I've never seen it in another technical
newsgroup on USENET.

What does that mean? It could mean that you haven't followed many
discussions on usenet.


In case you're not a troll, here's my advice, ask the C questions you
have to ask, read discussions that interest you and don't be involved
in anything else.

 

[joshuajnoble]

No, you're genuinely stupid. If you were genuinely curious, you'd do
your own research.

Now, see, I've been reading this group on and off for about 4 years
and have never posted anything, but have frequently been tempted to
put a "gee, can't you all just get along?" sort of post up. I never
did because I figured that anyone who did so (or, apparently posts
pretty much anything else) would get called an idiot in one way or
another. That is, as I now understand it, the standard operating
procedure. I'm hoping someone will now commence calling me an idiot in
some way or another.

ask the C questions you
have to ask, read discussions that interest you and don't be involved
in anything else.

Yep. There actually is a *lot* of good info here, along with a healthy
dose of vitriol and weirdness. So, you know, whatever you're in the
mood for...

 

[Chris Dollin]

No, you're genuinely stupid. If you were genuinely curious, you'd do
your own research.

Fire, meet fuel. Fuel, meet fire.

Lay off the grauitious insults. (That goes for a lot of people
at the moment (fx:sad-face); writing it here doesn't mean the
other gratuities are OK, it means I'm skipping a lot and using
this instance as an example.)