OT: Billing clients who are slow to sign off

[Jim Royal]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but there's enough collected wisdom here
to make it worthwhile.

I've been wondering what to do about clients who are slow to sign off
on work that I do for them. I've had clients who drag their feet at
every stage: Site map, preliminary UI design, content reviews, etc.
Eventually, these projects drag on from the envisioned 8 weeks to 12 to
16 to 20 weeks. And while I'm spending time chasing after them to sign
off on stuff, I'm not as effective on my other projects, nor for
looking for new business. It costs me money.

So is there a way to give these slowpokes an incentive? A clause in the
contact that says that a delay of more than X will cost them $$$? Or is
that a dangerous road to take?

All opinions welcome.

 

[Hywel]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but there's enough collected wisdom here
to make it worthwhile.

I've been wondering what to do about clients who are slow to sign off
on work that I do for them. I've had clients who drag their feet at
every stage: Site map, preliminary UI design, content reviews, etc.
Eventually, these projects drag on from the envisioned 8 weeks to 12 to
16 to 20 weeks. And while I'm spending time chasing after them to sign
off on stuff, I'm not as effective on my other projects, nor for
looking for new business. It costs me money.

So is there a way to give these slowpokes an incentive? A clause in the
contact that says that a delay of more than X will cost them $$$? Or is
that a dangerous road to take?

All opinions welcome.

Deposit & staged payments. People are for more motivated when they've
already paid for stuff. Just look and me and my gym membership.

 

[saz]

Deposit & staged payments. People are for more motivated when they've
already paid for stuff. Just look and me and my gym membership.

I'm with Hywel on this.

I get 50% down on all contracts less than $5000. Over that amount, 33%
deposit and 33% each of the next 2 months. If they are not motivated to
respond quickly for approvals, I don't mind - I already have the money.

And I always work on 3 or 4 sites at the same time. This fills in the
dead times that will always occur while waiting on approvals.

 

[Augustus]

I've been wondering what to do about clients who are slow to sign off
on work that I do for them. I've had clients who drag their feet at
every stage: Site map, preliminary UI design, content reviews, etc.
Eventually, these projects drag on from the envisioned 8 weeks to 12 to
16 to 20 weeks. And while I'm spending time chasing after them to sign
off on stuff, I'm not as effective on my other projects, nor for
looking for new business. It costs me money.

So is there a way to give these slowpokes an incentive? A clause in the
contact that says that a delay of more than X will cost them $$$? Or is
that a dangerous road to take?

I think putting in some kind of penalty for slowness is probably a bad road
to travel...

Reading your post gives me a couple of thoughts right away...

1) You should be billing upfront and at regular intervals. If you aren't...
or are uncertain about this... then trust me, all it'll take is being
screwed once by a client and you'll change your tune.
Once you are billing them regularly or have been paid upfront then it has
less meaning to you if they drag their heels, because you've been paid for
some or all of the work you've done thus far.
This will let you concentrate on other jobs so that down the road you might
had 3, 4 or 5 or more jobs on the go at any one time... when you are waiting
for the first 2 to give you content and the third to approve your
interface... you can work on the 4th and 5th sites.

2) If this happens regularly... then you might want to look at how you are
doing things and maybe that could use some changing. Looking at what you
wrote... do you really need them to approve a site map?
You have to remember that most of these people don't know anything about
this stuff... some do, but most don't.
If you can cut down on your interaction with the customer you can speed
things along much better... so instead of having them sign off on everything
you should instead get them to sign off on the important and big things and
more or less take a hand in the actual site creation (part of what you are
there for is consultant, to provide input and insight into the site's
creation)

 

[Robert Frost-Bridges]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but there's enough collected wisdom here
to make it worthwhile.

I've been wondering what to do about clients who are slow to sign off
on work that I do for them.

Sorry to butt in but how does 'sign off' work? What do they sign?

 

[WebcastMaker]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but there's enough collected wisdom here
to make it worthwhile.

I've been wondering what to do about clients who are slow to sign off
on work that I do for them.

25% deposit
25% when the design is approved
50% when we turn the site on

We also NEVER give a completion date. All deliverables are based on
start dates after they provide the content. When we ask for something
from the client, the clock stops until we receive it. If we are late,
the client knows it is their fault.

We explain this policy up front.

 

[WebcastMaker]

Sorry to butt in but how does 'sign off' work? What do they sign?

Yes, they physically sign something (design document etc...) because if
they change their minds half way through the project, then they will pay
for it.

 

[The Doormouse]

When we ask for something
from the client, the clock stops until we receive it. If we are late,
the client knows it is their fault.

Do you get clients that expect ten-minutes-to-midnight miracles, or does
the contract cover it pretty well?

The Doormouse

 

[Jim Royal]

I'm with Hywel on this.

I get 50% down on all contracts less than $5000. Over that amount, 33%
deposit and 33% each of the next 2 months. If they are not motivated to
respond quickly for approvals, I don't mind - I already have the money.

Good advice, and this I'm already doing. Still doesn't help with some
of the slowpokes.

 

[Jim Royal]

Sorry to butt in but how does 'sign off' work? What do they sign?

Sign-off can be a physical signature on a contract or approval sheet,
or a simple okay in an email. Depends on the relationship with the
client and the nature of the work.

 

[Jim Royal]

25% deposit
25% when the design is approved
50% when we turn the site on

We do staged billing, too.

We also NEVER give a completion date. All deliverables are based on
start dates after they provide the content. When we ask for something
from the client, the clock stops until we receive it. If we are late,
the client knows it is their fault.

Then perhaps this is the answer: At each billing stage, we should
document the current schedule, and define the deliverables fr the next
stage.

I'll give this some thought. Thanks to all who answered.

 

[Jim Royal]

1) You should be billing upfront and at regular intervals.

This, we are already doing.

2) If this happens regularly... then you might want to look at how you are
doing things and maybe that could use some changing. Looking at what you
wrote... do you really need them to approve a site map?

I'd prefer to provide this level of detail -- the customer can ignore
if he choses. It demonstrates that we are actually thinking about what
we are doing, and creating something that suits the client's actual
needs rather than just yanking a template off a shelf. Some customers
need this assurance.

But I think that on reflection, better time-tracking tools would be of
use to report back how much of our time is working and how much is
waiting.

Thanks.

 

[Neal]

Good advice, and this I'm already doing. Still doesn't help with some
of the slowpokes.

If that amount of previous investment isn't incentive enough to fulfill
their end of the bargain, then thay don't get a website. Take other jobs,
and sorry to them. You don't owe them a refund for work you actually did,
do you?

 

[WebcastMaker]

Do you get clients that expect ten-minutes-to-midnight miracles, or does
the contract cover it pretty well?

Something like this just happened to us last week. We designed a site
for a Home builder, built the entire thing, with virtual tours and web
casts for each subdivision, then at the project review, the owner, says
he wants to change the jingle. He still owes us $24k. We had to make a
choice, suck it up, make the new music (all he wanted was a word added
to the jingle), or fight him for it.

We made the new jingle and changed it in all the web casts. Total time
about 8 hours of work including studio time. We sucked it up. We had
his sign off on the music, but it was simpler to just make the change.

So even though it was signed off, and they approved everything, we still
made the change, for free. So it is never 100%, but we try.

 

[rf]

So even though it was signed off, and they approved everything, we still
made the change, for free. So it is never 100%, but we try.

Goodwill.

Is that client going to use you for his next project?

You can bet your bloody arse he will

 

[saz]

25% deposit
25% when the design is approved
50% when we turn the site on

We also NEVER give a completion date. All deliverables are based on
start dates after they provide the content. When we ask for something
from the client, the clock stops until we receive it. If we are late,
the client knows it is their fault.

We explain this policy up front.

I give completion dates, but it doesn't start until I receive ALL
content, not just "something to start with", and my clock stops during
the waiting for approval stages.

The key is to give yourself more than enough time, so whether it's a
quick 3 page site or a 100 page ecommerce situation, I never ask for
less than 6 months, yet always deliver in half the time (remember - it
starts after I receive all information and images.

 

[WebcastMaker]

Goodwill.
Is that client going to use you for his next project?
You can bet your bloody arse he will

Exactly, and his friends will too.

 

[Jim Royal]

If that amount of previous investment isn't incentive enough to fulfill
their end of the bargain, then thay don't get a website. Take other jobs,
and sorry to them. You don't owe them a refund for work you actually did,
do you?

Good attitude. I am certainly not going to force free work on them

Early on, my business partner kept thinking that if we just went ahead
and completed the work, the slowpokes would have to pay us. I've since
corrected her thinking on this matter.

 

[Jeff Thies]

I give completion dates, but it doesn't start until I receive ALL

content, not just "something to start with", and my clock stops during
the waiting for approval stages.

That must take some time.

After the client signs off on the design we tend to let the client add
almost all the content. That way we are done *way* before the client is.
The site functions and looks the way it should but the pages are content
light (except for the index page) and it is then up to them to add
content or additional pages. Obviously this is all online content managed.

Clients always want to make changes and it is always better if they
do this themselves. We started doing this with just a few pages per site
and now it is usually the whole site. Saves a lot of time and work.


Jeff

 

[saz]

That must take some time.

After the client signs off on the design we tend to let the client add
almost all the content. That way we are done *way* before the client is.
The site functions and looks the way it should but the pages are content
light (except for the index page) and it is then up to them to add
content or additional pages. Obviously this is all online content managed.

Clients always want to make changes and it is always better if they
do this themselves. We started doing this with just a few pages per site
and now it is usually the whole site. Saves a lot of time and work.


Jeff

It does take time, but I always start with the basic ideas and design
before I get all the content. That way when I receive the content, I
have something to show them within a week. It makes it look like I've
been dedicating all my time to them, and they feel "special".

It's a mind game, but it works!