Re: Seeking computer-programming job (Sunnyvale, CA)

[Arne Vajhøj]

But I am.

Absolutely not.

Unless you have run statistical studies on Java programmers,
you cannot logically refute it, and to assert otherwise anyway is
therefore illogical.

Typical Java programmers are reasonable guys (or girls).

You are just a complete wacko.

> Moreover, it is tantamount to calling me a liar,

You claim of being a typical Java programmers is not true.

Arne

 

[Seamus MacRae]

[You can even have multiple frames on different displays, in different
countries if you want...]

The ability to run multiple xterms concurrently had occurred to me,
yes. Why would I want to though? Twice as much of a bletcherous thing
is more, rather than less, bletcherous. One xterm at a shell prompt is
the most I'd normally ever desire.

Besides, it's not as if I'd magically get any real-GUI goodness out of
it, like being able to cut in one window and paste in a different
one. The X clipboard and the various emacs instances' clipboards would
all know nothing of one another.

You must be aware that emacs can run in windowed mode under both X-windows and
MS windows (and others I am not familiar with).

Yes, trivially; any console app can be run "in windowed mode" by
displaying it in a windowed terminal emulator instead of a full-screen
one or a real terminal.

You seem to be talking here though about non-windowed (or tty) mode.

The mode of all old unix command-line tools, yes.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Please don't split my sentances like that.

Now, what would you want me to say, if after reading something you
said, I concluded that you weren't fully aware of the facts?

Earlier in this discussion I said something that was just plain
incorrect (re: lists in Java). I was corrected, and I accepted that as
part of a discussion -- the part where you learn things you didn't
know before.

I'm glad when somebody corrects me. Of course, I wouldn't be happy if
the corrections themselves were false -- but I can check that out
easily on various sources (Java spec, Lisp spec, etc), and confirm for
myself whether something is right or not. If I said something that was
factually wrong, and somebody pointed that out and said what was
correct, I would be thankful to them for doing so.

So, my sincere question to you is: If I think that your knowledge
about some fact is incorrect, how would you want me to tell you that?

Very good question.

Most likely he would assume that never happens.

(even though it happen all the time)

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I'm quite sure nobody /wants/ to convince you that Lisp is better than
Java. That would be the last thing we'd want! Then you'd be in the
Lisp groups all the time.

Arne

 

[Seamus MacRae]

Back again in an attempt to be nice to sci.math !

I shall be curious to see if your attempt succeeds.

He does not know anything about LISP and he does not know anything
about math.

Your attempt failed. It was neither nice nor in sci.math.

Furthermore, your two assertions, above, are incorrect. As I have
demonstrated I know some things about each of those subjects that you
apparently were surprised I knew.

And worse: he is not interested in learning.

This, also, is incorrect. What I am not interested in is what you, or
anyone else with a similar tendency towards excessive and unwarranted
rudeness, has to say on either subject, particularly when what is said
frequently contradicts, reason, expert testimony, recorded history, or
even the evidence of my own eyes.

Nothing wrong in trying to explain stuff - just realize that the
impact is most likely zero.

Explaining stuff in a rude, condescending, and insulting manner is
unlikely to get results, yes. People tend to tune out messages that
personally attack or insult them, since accepting the content of such a
message would mean accepting a negative claim about themselves.
Furthermore, explaining stuff in a manner that contradicts reason or
evidence will not generally net you any new believers. Save that for
congregations among the faithful, not for proselytizing.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Seamus MacRae wrote:
Lars Enderin wrote:
Seamus MacRae wrote:
You're right though about the productivity of this debate. It's like
evolutionists vs. creationists: one side has logic and evidence on
its side, the other unshakable faith, and neither will budge. We'll
never give up our logic and evidence and apparently you'll never
give
up your faith. And since there are no important public policy issues
at stake, your continuing to argue is pointless.
It's ironic, really, that when you write something which seems to
make
sense, [numerous insults deleted]
Who are you, and what is the point of this unprovoked drive-by
flaming?
The point is to expose you as a [insult deleted].
And unless you really are a schizo, you know me through your other
aliases: Twisted, Jerry Gerrone, etc, etc.

No. Seamus is not me and none of the nasty things that you have said
or implied about me are at all true.

I find it difficult to believe that there could exist more than one
person (in Canada) with your particular blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah

Who said I was in Canada? Whoever it was ought to try asking me instead
of making wild guesses next time.

You did.

Check the email address you are posting.

Arne

 

[Seamus MacRae]

I think you should read more carefull yourself.

I think you should shut up before you sink any deeper. You're in
quicksand. Or hadn't you noticed?

The above just proved that you have not even understood what
is being discussed.

It proved nothing of the sort. Perhaps if you'd focus on Java instead of
insults you would avoid these kinds of embarrassments, Arne.

The point is that it needs to be:
Integer returnOneOrNull()
not:
int returnOneOrNull()
to be able to return null.

That is irrelevant. The person asked how does it work if they want to
"return a literal". Formerly you had to wrap it, for instance new
Integer(3) or Double.valueOf(42.0). Now you can just "return 3;" or
"return 42.0;".

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

[You can even have multiple frames on different displays, in different
countries if you want...]
The ability to run multiple xterms concurrently had occurred to me,
yes. Why would I want to though? Twice as much of a bletcherous thing
is more, rather than less, bletcherous. One xterm at a shell prompt is
the most I'd normally ever desire.

Besides, it's not as if I'd magically get any real-GUI goodness out of
it, like being able to cut in one window and paste in a different
one. The X clipboard and the various emacs instances' clipboards would
all know nothing of one another.

You must be aware that emacs can run in windowed mode under both
X-windows and MS windows (and others I am not familiar with).

Yes, trivially; any console app can be run "in windowed mode" by
displaying it in a windowed terminal emulator instead of a full-screen
one or a real terminal.

But in this case it is in real windowed mode.

May I suggest that you install Linux and emacs, so you can try it.

Arne

 

[Seamus MacRae]

False.

False. Wikipedia says CL was standardized in 1986. (Shockingly recent
for something that had already existed for a couple of decades before
that.) Meanwhile http://dreamsongs.com/CLOS.html says "In the late
1980s, a group of us designed CLOS."

The "late 1980s" would seem likely to mean 1987-1989, inclusive; 1986
would be in the mid-1980s. Indeed, at that link the dates mentioned for
major early publications are 1987 and 1988.

Besides, you yourself said CLOS was initially built as a library for
ANSI Common Lisp. That cannot have occurred prior to the very existence
of ANSI Common Lisp (as opposed to just Lisp) and, therefore, the standard.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I think you should shut up before you sink any deeper. You're in
quicksand. Or hadn't you noticed?


It proved nothing of the sort. Perhaps if you'd focus on Java instead of
insults you would avoid these kinds of embarrassments, Arne.


That is irrelevant. The person asked how does it work if they want to
"return a literal". Formerly you had to wrap it, for instance new
Integer(3) or Double.valueOf(42.0). Now you can just "return 3;" or
"return 42.0;".

No.

They were discussing whether they needed to wrap to be able to
return null.

Arne

 

[Seamus MacRae]

On 2009-05-22, Seamus MacRae <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

Please stop posting five minutes after I post. Post, then wait a day or

Stop posting shit

Stop being rude, insulting, vulgar, and demanding.

Good luck.

Your insincere remark has been ignored for the record.

If time is irrelevant, then don't complain about me posting X minutes
after you.

Time is irrelevant to some things and relevant to others. Or had the
possibility of such a thing never occurred to you?

There is so far exactly one ANSI standard codifying Common Lisp. That standard
has CLOS in it.

That is clearly impossible, since that standard was published in 1986
and CLOS was still being developed into 1988. Unless you mean to suggest
that the specification for CLOS, published in 1988, was then couriered
via time machine to an ANSI committee at or prior to the date of 1986 so
that it could be included in the CL standard, then you shall have to
admit you are mistaken.

[much deleted that was dependent on a false premise]

Doh.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Seamus MacRae]

Your problem. Not our problem.

Then I will make it your problem.

 

[Seamus MacRae]

Check:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

That is not either keeping your attitude in check nor remaining civil.
You have failed. Please start over and try again from scratch.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

It is a well-known fact that, however they might be disavowed by its
mainstream, the extremists of a movement have a tendency to tarnish the
image of that movement if they act in a violent or otherwise uncivilized
manner.

It therefore is wise for those participating in a movement to try to
keep their own side's extremists in check, lest they give them all a bad
name.


I just did the same check. It seems he has a tendency to flame people
throughout comp.* and has had for years.

So you accused me of advocating for Lisp because you think I flame
people.

Brilliant piece of logic.

Worthy of Monty Python.

[Nice to meet you, Arne.]

To judge by his posting history and my own recent experience, no, it is
not nice to meet Arne.

I consider you saying that to be an honor.

They probably don't like that this thread is largely about Lisp now, and
hence off-topic there.

So the people from cljp attack you because they consider the thread
off-topic.

Another brilliant piece of logic.

Unfortunately, I've been publicly badmouthed there and so I must
publicly respond there to explain why I'm actually in the right here,

That sounds familiar.

Arne

 

[Seamus MacRae]

I shall reply to this here since Motzarella didn't see fit to receive
Pascal's post.

I will continue "answering to them" (or rather, to *you*, as you,
Pascal, are one of "them") for as long as you continue to publicly
insinuate negative things about me, and other nonsense, that I feel the
need to correct. Somebody has to set the record straight when one of you
tells a whopper, and hardly anybody else seems to be willing to do it,
hence my volunteering.

Wakarimashita!

Excuse me?

Appropriate plonking applied.

If you're now plonking each other, you really should stop this invasion
of comp.lang.java.programmer and get your own house in order over in
comp.lang.lisp.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

That is not either keeping your attitude in check nor remaining civil.
You have failed. Please start over and try again from scratch.

So you missed the point again.

Arne

 

[Seamus MacRae]

I was not commenting

Then please go ahead and not comment. I won't mind complete silence from
you. Not one bit.

 

[Seamus MacRae]

Wrong again.

No, it is perfectly true that your pointless jabs and pokes do not
advance the case for Lisp.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
[snip]

Please stop posting five minutes after I post. Post, then wait a day or

Stop posting shit

Stop being rude, insulting, vulgar, and demanding.

Good luck.

Your insincere remark has been ignored for the record.

How can you both ignore something *and* reply to it at the
same time??

Arne

 

[Seamus MacRae]

Alessio Stalla wrote:

[snip]

Please stop posting five minutes after I post, in the interests of
letting me get caught up so I can move on to other tasks. I do have
other things to do than defend myself against you and your pals, you
know, and it is disrespectful to keep me jumping like this without any
time to even catch a breather. Furthermore, please try to limit your
posts to a reasonable length. This one isn't as ludicrously long as some
of your recent posts have been, but it isn't exactly short either.

I just answered another of your posts, and this precisely demonstrates
my point there; you are not in control in this conversation

I'm not sure I care for your threatening tone.

you must post, and here you are complaining that others are keeping
you jumping.

If I set out to catch up on Usenet, then once I have begun I must reply
to any posts that say incorrect things, especially if they say incorrect
things about me, personally, in public where other people might read
them and be misled.

If people continue to flood the newsgroup with more incorrect postings,
then it makes it difficult to get caught up and be able to say "there,
I'm done" and move on to another task.

If you truly want control, then take control, including control over
the urge you have to answer every argument

Not every argument. Every argument that says or insinuates something
unpleasant about me, either by vigorously disagreeing with something I
said or by containing overt personal attacks, perhaps. But nobody sane
would want something like that aimed at them being on the public record,
but as yet unchallenged, now would they?