The Modernization of Emacs

B

bbound

Perhaps our word "man" (manas) still expresses something of precisely
this feeling of self-satisfaction: man designated himself as the
creature that measures values, evaluates and measures, as the "valuating
animal as such".[1]

Don't both "man" and those words for measurement come ultimately from
words for "hand" (similarly to words like "manual", as in labor)? Our
clever hands with their opposable thumbs being considered a defining
characteristic. And our tool use thus derived. Handspans also having
been a common (if imprecise) early unit of measurement (along with
forearm-spans, as in cubits, strides, and foot-length, from which the
measurement in feet still derives its name).
 
L

Lew

Don't both "man" and those words for measurement come ultimately from
words for "hand" (similarly to words like "manual", as in labor)? Our
clever hands with their opposable thumbs being considered a defining
characteristic. And our tool use thus derived. Handspans also having
been a common (if imprecise) early unit of measurement (along with
forearm-spans, as in cubits, strides, and foot-length, from which the
measurement in feet still derives its name).

For most humans, the length of their foot from heel to toe is nearly equal to
the length of their forearm elbow to wrist.
 
J

Joost Kremers

Don't both "man" and those words for measurement come ultimately from
words for "hand" (similarly to words like "manual", as in labor)?

no. "manual" is derived from latin "manus" meaning "hand". the word "man"
is related to (though not directly derived from) "mind", and the latin word
"mens", which means "mind".
 
D

Damien Kick

Wildemar said:
Frank said:
If you were referring to the "free" in "free Mumia Abu Jamal", I
would agree with you. I don't think anyone would imagine that this
phrase meant that someone was going to get Mumia Abu Jamal gratis.
Like it or not, "free software" referring to "free as in beer" is
probably the most common interpretation of the phrase for a native
English speaker. [...]

Fully true for non-native English speakers as well. Just did the "wife
test" also - she is a pure software user - and yes, free is "no money,
do what you want" and that's it.

I should have used the phrase "fluent English speaker"...
I *never* use the term "free" if I don't want to imply "free beer"
(which is a Good Thing and as such highly valuated - ask any
Bavarian). Using "free" as by FSF or any other lawyer-style 6 pixel
font printed phrasing is pure perfidiousness.
I appearantly missed a lot of that conversation, but what is your point?
While I agree that the word "free" implies "free of monetary cost" to
many people societies, that is by no means set in stone [...].

For some odd reason, this reminded me of an old episode of Mork & Mindy:

<blockquote
cite="http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/09/03/robin/">
What made Mork think eggs could fly? And yet when he tried to release
them from the tyranny of gravity ("Fly, be free!"), flinging them into
the air only to have them land with a soft thwack, it seemed like
nothing so much as a stroke of loopy brilliance.
</blockquote>

The term "free eggs" can only sensibly mean one thing, eggs which can be
obtained without an exchange of money. To think of it meaning anything
else--"fly, be free!"--is comedy (or not, depending on one's opinion of
Mork & Mindy). When Free Software Foundationistas try to insist on the
phrase "free software" meaning anything other than the obvious
interpretation of the term it is annoying (or not, depending on one's
opinion of RMS's skills as a wordsmith). I've got this great mental
image of some farcical Free Software Liberation Army running around,
removing hard drives from boxen, and throwing them in the air with the
moral imperative to "fly, be free!"
But that aside: The word free with respect to the FSF and GPL have a
perfectly well defined meaning. People may misunderstand that from not
knowing the definition but that doesnt make it any less well defined.

This thread of conversation also popped into my head when I was waiting
in line at the Starbucks in the building in which I work. I've been
ordering a lot of Americanos lately. I always ask for a small Americano
and the person taking my order always calls out my drink as a "tall".
With respect to Starbucks, calling a beverage which comes in the
shortest cup used in the store a "tall" has a perfectly well defined
meaning. But that doesn't make it any less ridiculous. Of course, it
was mentioned elsewhere in this thread that context is important. And
it is. To use the Starbucks analogy, for someone to criticize Starbucks
because their tall drinks really are actually quite short would be
ignoring the significance of the context of Starbucks' abuse of the
English language. But, again, that doesn't make Starbuck's use of the
word any less ridiculous. However, at least at Starbucks, when I use
the "wrong" word, they don't start lecturing me. They know what I mean
and simply go ahead and translate it to Starbucks newspeak.
Again, why this discussion?

Hello, Pot? This is the kettle. You are so black.
 
W

Wade Ward

This thread of conversation also popped into my head when I was waiting in
line at the Starbucks in the building in which I work. I've been ordering
a lot of Americanos lately. I always ask for a small Americano and the
person taking my order always calls out my drink as a "tall". With respect
to Starbucks, calling a beverage which comes in the shortest cup used in
the store a "tall" has a perfectly well defined meaning. But that doesn't
make it any less ridiculous. Of course, it was mentioned elsewhere in
this thread that context is important. And it is. To use the Starbucks
analogy, for someone to criticize Starbucks because their tall drinks
really are actually quite short would be ignoring the significance of the
context of Starbucks' abuse of the English language. But, again, that
doesn't make Starbuck's use of the word any less ridiculous. However, at
least at Starbucks, when I use the "wrong" word, they don't start
lecturing me. They know what I mean and simply go ahead and translate it
to Starbucks newspeak.

I, as a tall Americano, have always taken ordering the smallest espresso
beverage possible as something describing the preference of the orderer, as
opposed to the beverage itself.
 
N

nebulous99


Do not bluntly contradict me in public.
"manual" is derived from latin "manus" meaning "hand". the word "man"
is related to (though not directly derived from) "mind", and the latin word
"mens", which means "mind".

So you assert, but "man" bears a much closer resemblance to "manus"
than it does to "mens".

Or are you proposing that the plural word "men" came first? That would
be ... odd.
 
M

Matthias Buelow

(e-mail address removed) wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is this some sport of yours to constantly create new gmail accounts and
spam Usenet?
So you assert, but "man" bears a much closer resemblance to "manus"
than it does to "mens".

This is irrelevant. Consult an etymological dictionary.


F'up-to: comp.lang.lisp, where I'm reading this.
 
B

Bent C Dalager

Do not bluntly contradict me in public.

If you do not want your assertions to be contradicted, you might want
to consider not phrasing them in the form of questions.
So you assert, but "man" bears a much closer resemblance to "manus"
than it does to "mens".

Many fun things happen to words over ~1500 years.

Cheers,
Bent D
 
J

John W. Kennedy

Do not bluntly contradict me in public.

You are in grave need of professional psychiatric help.

Seek it now, if you do not wish your life to be ended three or four
years down the line by a police sniper.
 
J

John W. Kennedy

Bent said:
If you do not want your assertions to be contradicted, you might want
to consider not phrasing them in the form of questions.


Many fun things happen to words over ~1500 years.

It's been rather longer than that since the separation of Proto-Germanic
from Proto-Italic -- about 4000 years or so.

--
John W. Kennedy
"The pathetic hope that the White House will turn a Caligula into a
Marcus Aurelius is as naïve as the fear that ultimate power inevitably
corrupts."
-- James D. Barber (1930-2004)
 
B

bbound

Is this some sport of yours to constantly create new gmail accounts and
spam Usenet?

I am not a spammer. You, however, *are* a liar.

[snip remaining insults]
[correct newsgroups: header after attempted hijacking to make my
response disappear]
 

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