Video: Ryan Dahl: Node.js


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R

Ry Nohryb

Do you read this group at all?  :)

Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel.  Do I really need to review
their "Node.js"

Yes, you ought to. Node.js has nothing to do with YUI. Node.js is a
wonderful thing for any JS programmer, even more so if he happens to
love unix.
or can we just agree that this post was some sort of bad
joke on your part?

You're a bit too much irascible, istm.
 
S

Scott Sauyet

David said:
Do you read this group at all?  :)

Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel.  Do I really need to review
their "Node.js" or can we just agree that this post was some sort of bad
joke on your part?

If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
focus seems to be on browser scripting.

Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.

I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
love to see one from someone who does. There are some surprising
results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
second.

One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
only JS supported IO. It's reasonably convincing.
 
R

Ry Nohryb

If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
focus seems to be on browser scripting.

Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.

I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
love to see one from someone who does.  There are some surprising
results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
second.

One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
only JS supported IO.  It's reasonably convincing.

And you can use it to script a unix system in JavaScript. It even
accepts a shebang in the script files, so a source text.js file
behaves exactly as a (binary) program. It has a rich built-in API, and
a module loader : http://nodejs.org/api.html
 
D

David Mark

Scott said:
If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
focus seems to be on browser scripting.

Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.

Fair enough, I thought it was going to be about one of YUI's DOM modules.
I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
love to see one from someone who does. There are some surprising
results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
second.

One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
only JS supported IO. It's reasonably convincing.

I might look at it, but no promises. Not my bag really.
 
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D

David Mark

Ry said:
Yes, you ought to. Node.js has nothing to do with YUI.

Well, that's something. :)
Node.js is a
wonderful thing for any JS programmer, even more so if he happens to
love unix.

Whatever. Stupid name though. Sounds like a filename (hence my initial
confusion).
You're a bit too much irascible, istm.

Don't be coy "Ry", you (and your previous identity) have a much-deserved
reputation for spamming this group with links to dubious videos (not to
mention being completely crackers). I really don't think my response
was unreasonable in that context.
 
S

Scott Sauyet

David said:
Scott said:
David said:
[ ... ]
If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
focus seems to be on browser scripting.
Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.

Fair enough, I thought it was going to be about one of YUI's DOM modules.

Yes, a plain link without *any* description is pretty useless. Jorge,
next time could you supply a little context?

I might look at it, but no promises.  Not my bag really.

No, I wasn't expecting you to. I'm wondering if there are those in
the group with the requisite expertise. I would really like to learn
more, because, for various reasons, I would love to use JS on the
server-side, and not in some Java ghetto as several of the server-side
JS solutions seem to prefer.

Anyone out there with expertise in web servers and/or server-side JS
want to offer analysis of this for us?
 
R

Ry Nohryb

The most recent time this came up was when discussing "Non Browser
Implementations".

Yes, genius, yes. And 2 months ago, when discussing another of your
screwed-up FAQ entries: "FAQ Topic - How can I access the client-side
filesystem? ". See: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/browse_thread/thread/70bad3c72a796504

But, of course: http://google.com/search?q="node.js"+site:jibbering.com
sill yields: Your search - "node.js" site:jibbering.com - did not
match any documents

Because the FAQ is permanently outdated.
 
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D

David Mark

M

Michael Haufe (\TNO\)

If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
focus seems to be on browser scripting.

Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.

I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
love to see one from someone who does.  There are some surprising
results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
second.

One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
only JS supported IO.  It's reasonably convincing.

Here's my take on it having no knowledge of it beyond the video:

*built on V8, hence limited to that version of JS and not whats
supported in say Rhino

*For the same reason its better than Microsoft's JScript.

*Server Speed claim: Needs verification

*Consumes a significant amount of memory for what seems to be trivial
work.

*Uses CommonJS style "Modules". Whether this is a good idea and
approach is debateable as can be seen in the es-discuss mailing list.

*Concurrency with I/O as presented is far too vague to come to a
conclusion. It raises more questions than answers.

*All I/O requires a callback or so he claims. This is probably
inaccurate at best as I'm sure he doesn't include uses of the Date
object for example. Either way, this is pretty inconvenient in
comparison to most languages/frameworks.

*One of the design goals is to be Low-Level, but:"Threads should only
be used by experts.... you'll write it in C".
I guess his big ole brain knows better than anyone who plans to use
his invention.

*He's also agains the use of co-routines because they're too hard,

*A design issue that bugs me is the differing patterns for creating
objects.
Also the argument for the .end() method seems unnecessarily
redundant.

*overall I think its an immature and premature.

If you want JS on the server stick with Rhino or JScript at this point.
 
J

john

Well, that's something. :)

it's too bad that the experts/regulars in this group seem to be so
unaware of such an interesting project as to not even recognize its
name. to a novice (i.e. hobby programmer) such as myself it looks like
one of the more interesting additions to the ECMAScript ecosystem in
recent times (certainly more so than the seemingly never ending supply
of "cross browser" scripting libraries). doing system scripting, HTTP
servers, database drivers, web frameworks etc. in ECMAScript would seem
like more exciting work than what the typical web application offers. do
the people around here with a deep understanding of ECMAScript really
not find any interest in the language outside a browsing context?
Whatever. Stupid name though. Sounds like a filename (hence my initial
confusion).

certainly no more "stupid" than a library named "My Library." honestly,
no offense meant as your library (among others maintained by regulars
here) has proved quite educational in my (so far insignificant) foray
into browser scripting; but this seems like a really silly criticism in
the broad scheme of things. in fact most popular open source projects
seem to have "stupid" names. perhaps it's part of a grand strategy :)
 
M

Michael Haufe (\TNO\)

it's too bad that the experts/regulars in this group seem to be so
unaware of such an interesting project as to not even recognize its
name.

Its an old idea in a new form. node.js is far from the first foray of
JavaScript into the server (which was first seen in 1998 AFAIK with
Netscape). So is it innovative? No. Is it an interesting project?
Sure. Perhaps once it gains a 1.0 version status, and when the novelty
wears off it can be looked at in a more objective manner.
do the people around here with a deep understanding of ECMAScript really
not find any interest in the language outside a browsing context?

This is a false characterization and exaggeration of the people who
visit this group.
 
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R

Ry Nohryb

I can't tell if this is simply intended as a joke.

I was complaining about your posting a raw link to a video without
accompanying it with some text describing what the video is about.
Posting two more links to additional videos -- again with no
explanation -- just makes it worse.

Sorry, now that you say it, yes, I realize that it looks very much
like a -bad- joke. Sincerely, that wasn't my intention. The videos are
2 other (previous) presentations of Node.js, by Ryan Dahl. It's been
by watching the one @ jsconf.eu that I got aware of Node.js.
 
S

Scott Sauyet

Ry said:
I can't tell if this is simply intended as a joke. [ ... ]

Sorry, now that you say it, yes, I realize that it looks very much
like a -bad- joke. Sincerely, that wasn't my intention. The videos are
2 other (previous) presentations of Node.js, by Ryan Dahl. It's been
by watching the one @ jsconf.eu that I got aware of Node.js.

Thanks. Much better. :) And the rest of this thread has helped
explain a little about what node.js actually is.
 
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R

Ry Nohryb

Thanks.  Much better.  :)  And the rest of this thread has helped
explain a little about what node.js actually is.

Certainly not TNO's posts. I think he's very very much disoriented wrt
Node. Node is a tiny, lovely, and damn fast thing that you program in
our much beloved JS. I'm using it now in every project. In some cases
it's running 40 times faster than the Ruby tool it replaces... DAMN
FAST :)
 

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