what's the best application server

[Qu0ll]

And all claims by vendors about growth in market share is true??

My guess is that SUN is just counting downloads.

And given that they bundle Glassfish with the Java EE SDK, then it
is not surprisingly that they have many downloads.

But if the download is only used to build against javaee.jar, then
it does not imply much real marketshare.

I would expect real marketshare to show in demand for people.

I am pretty sure they weren't referring to downloads and, as I said, they
are not claiming market share just growth.

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-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
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[Qu0ll]

No source but true????

My statement that I read something of this nature is true. I cannot vouch
for the truthfulness of the statement I was referring to.

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-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
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[Lew]

Strangely, they all seem to be losing market share to competing
technologies based on google searches:

<http://www.google.com/trends?q=glas...here,+weblogic&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0>

Your google-fu is mighty!

Some of the "Geronimo" references refer to the historical person, not the
software.

 

[Lew]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:26:43 +0000, Arved Sandstrom wrote:

[Snip]

Which at some point starts shading into Apache Geronimo...which I've
never used so can't comment on.

I've been using it for some simple things over the last few months. I've
been pretty happy with how easy it is to administer. I can't comment on
performance though.

The only downside is that nobody else seems to be using it.

IBM is. They have a habit of building commercial projects atop Apache and
other open-source projects, like Eclipse and Linux.

I don't know that WebSphere is literally built from Geronimo, but at a minimum
the Geronimo project influences WS's design. AIUI, WebSphere also
incorporates Apache Axis and OpenJPA, to name two.

 

[Lew]

the docs for Websphere come in a heavy duty wheelbarrow.

Actually, the arrive on electrons.
<http://www-01.ibm.com/software/websphere/products/application-infrastructure/>

 

[Nigel Wade]

I am pretty sure they weren't referring to downloads and, as I said, they
are not claiming market share just growth.

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics."

An application with only 2 installations can achieve a 50% growth by getting 1
more installation. An application with 1000 installations gets 10 more
installations and grows by 1%. Which has had the greater growth?

Creative use of statistics is very common amongst government agencies and
marketing depts.

 

[Qu0ll]

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics."

An application with only 2 installations can achieve a 50% growth by
getting 1
more installation. An application with 1000 installations gets 10 more
installations and grows by 1%. Which has had the greater growth?

Creative use of statistics is very common amongst government agencies and
marketing depts.

I am getting a bit fed up with this line of enquiry, it was just an
observation. I am not affiliated with Sun and I have nothing to gain by
defending them or GlassFish. The claim in the article I read was that
GlassFish was being deployed more often for new applications than any other
comparable server product. It had nothing to do with downloads or growth
expressed as a percentage of the current installed base. Whether this claim
is verifiable or not I have absolutely no idea and I do not particularly
care. I read it and I thought that mentioning it was relevant to the
thread. That's all.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
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[Tom Anderson]

Actually, the arrive on electrons.
<http://www-01.ibm.com/software/websphere/products/application-infrastructure/>

A wheelbarrow full of electrons? Wow, that's some serious documentation.

tom

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

A wheelbarrow full of electrons? Wow, that's some serious documentation.

Can you have a wheelbarrow that are not full of electrons?



Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I am getting a bit fed up with this line of enquiry, it was just an
observation. I am not affiliated with Sun and I have nothing to gain by
defending them or GlassFish. The claim in the article I read was that
GlassFish was being deployed more often for new applications than any
other comparable server product. It had nothing to do with downloads or
growth expressed as a percentage of the current installed base. Whether
this claim is verifiable or not I have absolutely no idea and I do not
particularly care. I read it and I thought that mentioning it was
relevant to the thread. That's all.

Actually you did not just mention that SUN had made the claim.

You explicit stated that it was the truth.

If you had only done the first, then I think the discussion would
have been very short, because some people would believe it to be true
other would not, but everyone would find it likely that SUN had claimed
so.

But with the second people are obviously curious about how you can be
so sure. Claims about market shares from vendors are not generally
considered trustworthy information.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Strangely, they all seem to be losing market share to competing
technologies based on google searches:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=glassfish,+jboss,+geronimo,+websphere
%2C+weblogic&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Google search volume must be a good proxy for how many people
have problems with the products.

If it drops, then it could be due to less people using them, but
it could also be due to the products and their use maturing
meaning that the products got less bugs and the users had
learned about the products various tricks.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I don't know that WebSphere is literally built from Geronimo, but at a
minimum the Geronimo project influences WS's design.

The free community edition of WAS is based on Geronimo.

AFAIK the for money editions of WAS does not use Geronimo code.

Arne

 

[Qu0ll]

Actually you did not just mention that SUN had made the claim.

You explicit stated that it was the truth.

If you had only done the first, then I think the discussion would
have been very short, because some people would believe it to be true
other would not, but everyone would find it likely that SUN had claimed
so.

But with the second people are obviously curious about how you can be
so sure. Claims about market shares from vendors are not generally
considered trustworthy information.

Arne, I think everyone just needs to chill out about this. It was not my
intention to vouch for the integrity of the claim or be a unpaid blanket
endorser of GlassFish, I just wanted to make people aware of the article.
If it appeared that I was doing anything more than verifying my statement
was true then it was unintentional. I don't think concentrating on my
language usage or perceived slip-ups is helpful to the discussion of the
best application server.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
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[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

 

[John B. Matthews]

Can you have a wheelbarrow that are not full of electrons?

Shocking! I'll wait for the photon edition.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

Can you have a wheelbarrow that are not full of electrons?

Most of them have some protons and neutrons taking up space. Actually,
wheelbarrows are mostly empty space. Plenty of room for more electrons.
A maximally dense electron wheelbarrow might not last very long though.

Are we saying the best Java application server is the one whose
documentation contains the least number of electrons?

 

[Tom Anderson]

Most of them have some protons and neutrons taking up space. Actually,
wheelbarrows are mostly empty space. Plenty of room for more electrons. A
maximally dense electron wheelbarrow might not last very long though.

Are we saying the best Java application server is the one whose documentation
contains the least number of electrons?

I heard that JonAS has released a muon edition.

tom

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I don't know if I buy this. Search volume on just a name of a product
probably doesn't relate to problems with the product, but to people
seeking information about the product. I think interest in a product is
probably a good product for the rate of adoption of the product. I doubt
improvements in the product will really have any affect at all on the
number of searches for just the product name.

You assume that the majority of requests comes from people interested
in hearing more about the product for potential adaptation for use.

I assume that the majority of requests comes from people where
the product has been picked and now they have a specific problem.

The last fits best with my experience.

But then I may be selective in where I read.

But if you do the same for Java and another language you
will see that the number of Java searches has also halfed
in that period.

Has the use of Java halfed during the last five years? No!

Same result and same conclusion about PHP.

Arne

 

[Mike Schilling]

You assume that the majority of requests comes from people
interested
in hearing more about the product for potential adaptation for use.

I assume that the majority of requests comes from people where
the product has been picked and now they have a specific problem.

Or specific question, since Googling has largely replaced RTFM.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Or specific question, since Googling has largely replaced RTFM.

True.

But do they RTFM/Google until something is not working ?

They should but ...



Arne