Will ClickOnce replace a lot of ASP.Net

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by Tina, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. Tina

    Tina Guest

    While ASP.Net is migrating toward more robust presentation by using things
    like AJAX I am wondering if ClickOnce will errode a lot of ASP.Net presence
    in Corporate Applications. I've been reading a lot about ClickOnce and it
    seems compelling particularily since Vista will have the .Net framework
    included along with the other requirements for ClickOnce deployment.

    Is there some downside to ClickOnce deployment that I'm now aware of?

    Thanks,
    T
     
    Tina, Sep 1, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Hi,
    ClickOnce is not intended as a replacement to standard web applications.
    Some downsides of ClickOnce are:

    - Longer download times, because the client has to download more
    components before it can run things (in the worst case, it has to
    download the runtime framework, if not available).

    - Except in some cases (WPF browser applications, XBAP), ClickOnce
    leaves a trace on the client computer. The application, though it's not
    registered in the classic sense (registry), appears in the Start Menu.
    That's a downside for the Internet Café scenario, for instance.

    - Not universal like HTML, JavaScript and CSS. ClickOnce is only
    available when IE is installed, so only on Windows platforms.

    I asked Microsoft the exact same question a few months ago, and their
    reply is clear: ClickOnce is not going to replace ASP.NET, it's a
    complement.

    Keep an eye on WPF for Rich Internet Applications, things are moving
    fast in the world wide web, but don't worry too much, ASP.NET still has
    a bright future.

    HTH,
    Laurent
     
    Laurent Bugnion, Sep 1, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Tina

    offwhite Guest

    The push for ClickOnce has died down since Ajax and Atlas became so
    popular. People were excited about ClickOnce back in November, 2005
    because we could finally push out a rich client with network features
    (Smart Client). But with Atlas, you get that and do not have to
    install anything locally.

    I think Microsoft's efforts are better spent on Atlas, IIS 7 and Vista
    at this point. They can come back to ClickOnce if this whole web thing
    never takes off.

    :)

    Brennan
     
    offwhite, Sep 1, 2006
    #3
  4. Hi,

    I continue to see RIAs installed over ClickOnce as a valid alternative
    to AJAX. The web browser has limitations, and will always have them.
    Sometimes it can be interesting to install a rich(er) client anyway.

    The sandbox, for example, prevents certain operations in the browser,
    and then a rich client becomes necessary. Also, certain graphical
    effects (3D, complex animations...) are simply impossible to realize in
    HTML, and sometimes plug-ins are not an option.

    Isn't it a crazy world, where November 2005 sounds like middle-age? ;-)
    (and I concur, it really does)

    I think that Microsoft has enough resources to work on more than one
    project at a time ;-) The mere fact that XBAPs are deployed using
    ClickOnce shows that this is still of importance to them.
    HTH,
    Laurent
     
    Laurent Bugnion, Sep 1, 2006
    #4
  5. Tina

    Tina Guest

    Laurent,
    Well, I'm only thinking about "closed environments" in organizations where
    everyone uses Windows with the framework and everyone uses I.E. I develop
    enterprise applications with ASP.Net - not public web sites.

    That removes a lot of your listed weak points. Also, I view Windows Froms
    programing as productive and I view JavaScript and Atlas as more of a
    non-productive mix of uh, stuff. Also, AJAX still seems kind of klunky to
    me.

    BTW, it's not that I am "worried." I think it would be nirvana to write
    functionality in Windows Forms.
    T
     
    Tina, Sep 1, 2006
    #5
  6. Tina

    offwhite Guest

    I understand what you mean about Javascript slowing you down. It just
    another language to add to the mix and it does add time to your test
    cycle so you can check the browsers you have to support. (now IE6 and
    IE7)

    But there are professional controls suites out there beyond Micorosoft
    Atlas. Here are the top ones that I know about. For the price of
    those controls you could eliminate the need to ever touch Javascript.

    http://www.infragistics.com/resource/Technologies/AJAX/Default.aspx

    http://www.componentart.com/webui.aspx

    Brennan Stehling
    http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/
     
    offwhite, Sep 1, 2006
    #6
  7. Hi,
    I am wondering why you see that as "klunky". It's simply a client-server
    communication mechanism. It's very similar to, say, .NET remoting. Of
    course it's asynchronous, so it needs to be very aware of what you're
    doing, but it's a modern way of programming anyway, unlike procedural,
    sequential applications. Or maybe I don't understand what you mean with
    "klunky"...

    As for JavaScript and ATLAS, it's very necessary to understand how the
    web works to program web applications. JavaScript is a very powerful
    language, and very flexible. But most JavaScript programmers don't truly
    understand this power, and use it wrongly.

    I think that many desktop applications programmers have a hard time
    changing to web application programming, because the concepts are very
    different, because of certain limitations that have to be considered,
    etc... Each scenario calls for a careful analysis, helping you to choose
    which application model you need. For the records, in the project I work
    on now, we are spending a lot of time carefully analysing the
    alternatives. For us, the possible candidates are: A classical web
    application, a web application with WPF/E, a XBAP application, a WPF
    application deployed via ClickOnce, or a WPF application deployed via
    MSI installation. WinForms are not an interesting alternative for us
    anymore.
    Since I started working with WPF, it's not really attractive for me to
    go back to Windows Forms... I guess that every technology brings a whole
    new world of possibilities ;-)
    Greetings,
    Laurent
     
    Laurent Bugnion, Sep 1, 2006
    #7
  8. Tina

    Tina Guest

    Laurent,
    After reading up on this a bit it seems that the idea of WinFroms deployed
    via clickOnce has been replaced by Extensible Application Markup Language
    Browser Applications (XBAP).

    I went to the MSDN page where it looks like I can download beta WINFX 3.0
    software but I'm afraid to do that on my main dev box because Beta software
    usually gums up things when the release version comes out.

    Is it viable to write XBAP apps today with the beta software?

    Does XBAP eliminate the need for ATLAS and JavaScript?

    (i notice there is a link to a "Blackjack Express Demo" XBAP application but
    it just leads to a download page where I have to build it myself using the
    beta software. Is there anyplace where I run an XBAP app in my browser?)

    Regards,
    T
     
    Tina, Sep 4, 2006
    #8
  9. Hi Tina,
    No, I don't think that's correct. I think that WPF applications will
    eventually replace WinForms, but XBAP will target another group of
    users. XBAPs are richer applications than HTML, but have less rights
    than installed, standalone applications. I really see that as a new
    target. Think of XBAPs a little like Flash applications without the HTML
    "container" around it.
    Yes, the current CTP (community technology preview) is very stable. I
    know that many firms are even starting to develop productive software
    with WPF. In any case it is more than sufficient to test the concepts
    and write prototypes.

    I recommend against the July CTP though. It is not complete (the
    development environment is missing). Rather install the June CTP. See here:
    http://geekswithblogs.net/lbugnion/archive/2006/07/02/83859.aspx
    No. Absolutely not. It's a very different scenario. What the future
    (say, what web apps will be in 5 to 10 years) is difficult to know, but
    I am very confident that HTML based applications will still be developed
    then, and also other RIAs (rich internet applications), for example with
    WPF or other technologies. The next years are really going to be
    incredibly interesting, stay posted ;-)
    I have a few prototypes on my site
    http://www.galasoft-lb.ch/mydotnet/WpfTests.TestActiveX/index.html
    http://www.galasoft-lb.ch/mydotnet/WpfTests.TestOpenWindow/index.html
    http://www.galasoft-lb.ch/mydotnet/WpfTests.TestPopUps/index.html

    but they're really just prototypes, or proof of concepts. Additionally,
    there is my WPF demo here
    http://www.galasoft-lb.ch/mydotnet/GalaSoftLb.Wpf.Demo/index.html

    However the demo is standalone. For very nice XBAP apps, check this:
    http://www.valil.com/winfx/Valil.Chess.WinFX.xbap
    http://www.valil.com/CrystalBall/CrystalBall.xbap

    There are more out there, keep in mind though that you need to have the
    correct version of the framework installed.

    HTH,
    Laurent
     
    Laurent Bugnion, Sep 4, 2006
    #9
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.