The scrollbar and Firefox.

D

Defacta

Hi !

How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firefox
to do the same.
I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.
Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>

Thanks,
Vincent.
 
A

Adrienne Boswell

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
Hi !

How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firefox
to do the same.
I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.
Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>

Thanks,
Vincent.
Click to expand...

That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
none? Please don't mess with the UA.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Adrienne said:
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta


That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
none? Please don't mess with the UA.
Click to expand...

Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE? But
is possible if you feel so compelled.

body { overflow: scroll; }
 
S

Safalra (Stephen Morley)

Adrienne said:
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
<[email protected]> writing in (e-mail address removed):

[snip scrollbars all the time in Firefox]

That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
none? Please don't mess with the UA.
Click to expand...

Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE?
Click to expand...


It ensures that the content area of the page doesn't change width depending
on the height of the content. This can be a undesired effect in a situation
where a visitor is moving between several pages in quick succession (for
example, when filling in a form split across multiple pages). I've only
once worked on a site where the effect has been annoying enough for me to
apply the overflow:scroll rule, but I don't regard the original poster's
comment as an illegitimate complaint.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Safalra said:
Adrienne said:
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
<[email protected]> writing in (e-mail address removed):

[snip scrollbars all the time in Firefox]

That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
none? Please don't mess with the UA.
Click to expand...
Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE?
Click to expand...


It ensures that the content area of the page doesn't change width depending
on the height of the content. This can be a undesired effect in a situation
where a visitor is moving between several pages in quick succession (for
example, when filling in a form split across multiple pages). I've only
once worked on a site where the effect has been annoying enough for me to
apply the overflow:scroll rule, but I don't regard the original poster's
comment as an illegitimate complaint.
Click to expand...

Ah, but Microsoft has decreed that only thy vertical scrollbar shall be
ever present. It is okay for the horizontal one to pop in and out as
needed and intrude on vertical viewport space! I just find that funny.
 
B

Bone Ur

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Sat, 01 Dec 2007 19:23:33
GMT Jonathan N. Little scribed:

And one has a consistent and, say, centered background on multiple pages.
Ah, but Microsoft has decreed that only thy vertical scrollbar shall
be ever present. It is okay for the horizontal one to pop in and out
as needed and intrude on vertical viewport space! I just find that
funny.
Click to expand...

Microsoft _is_ funny (-in a peculiar way.)

Not valid, but overflow-y:scroll; works last time I checked.
 
S

Safalra (Stephen Morley)

Safalra said:
Adrienne Boswell wrote:
[snip scrollbars all the time in Firefox]

Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE?
Click to expand...

It ensures that the content area of the page doesn't change width depending
on the height of the content. This can be a undesired effect in a situation
where a visitor is moving between several pages in quick succession (for
example, when filling in a form split across multiple pages). I've only
once worked on a site where the effect has been annoying enough for me to
apply the overflow:scroll rule, but I don't regard the original poster's
comment as an illegitimate complaint.
Click to expand...

Ah, but Microsoft has decreed that only thy vertical scrollbar shall be
ever present. It is okay for the horizontal one to pop in and out as
needed and intrude on vertical viewport space! I just find that funny.
Click to expand...


The appearance and disappearance of the vertical scrollbar can make
horizontally centred content jump around (I should have mentioned in my
previous post the other situation in which the effect is undesirable -
pages whose height may change dynamically). Vertical centring is very rare
so the horizontal scrollbar isn't so much of a problem.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Safalra said:
The appearance and disappearance of the vertical scrollbar can make
horizontally centred content jump around (I should have mentioned in my
previous post the other situation in which the effect is undesirable -
pages whose height may change dynamically). Vertical centring is very rare
so the horizontal scrollbar isn't so much of a problem.
Click to expand...

Maybe the real problem is that too many web "designers" feel compelled
to use fixed-width containers centered in the viewport, eh?
 
S

Safalra (Stephen Morley)

Maybe the real problem is that too many web "designers" feel compelled
to use fixed-width containers centered in the viewport, eh?
Click to expand...


The problem isn't limited to fixed-width designs. In fluid designs the text
will likely wrap differently if the content area becomes narrower or wider.
 
D

Defacta

Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE? But
is possible if you feel so compelled.

body { overflow: scroll; }
Click to expand...

Yes it works fine with Firefox but now I have troubles with IE 6 which
display some scrollbars inside the page,
You can have a look here:
http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/

Does anyone know why IE 6 display some scrollbars inside the page when
I had "overflow: scroll;" to the style of the body ?

Thanks,
Vincent.
 
B

Bergamot

Safalra said:
The problem isn't limited to fixed-width designs. In fluid designs the text
will likely wrap differently if the content area becomes narrower or wider.
Click to expand...

And that's a problem because...?

Rewrapping to fit the available space is how a fluid design *should*
work, is it not?
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Defacta said:
Yes it works fine with Firefox but now I have troubles with IE 6 which
display some scrollbars inside the page,
You can have a look here:
http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/

Does anyone know why IE 6 display some scrollbars inside the page when
I had "overflow: scroll;" to the style of the body ?
Click to expand...

Well you do have a mish-mosh of XHTML and HTML, in valid markup.

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/
[Invalid] Markup Validation of http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/ -
W3C Markup Validator


So as browsers try to "digest" all this they can come to different
conclusions. First start with valid markup, fix the errors, then see if
you get cross browsers consistency.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Safalra said:
The problem isn't limited to fixed-width designs. In fluid designs the text
will likely wrap differently if the content area becomes narrower or wider.
Click to expand...

So. With a fluid design and number of elements may reflow when you
change the viewport. Who cares? Unless you like reading pages while
winging the viewport dimensions back and forth.
 
M

Mark

Jonathan said:
Defacta said:
Yes it works fine with Firefox but now I have troubles with IE 6 which
display some scrollbars inside the page,
You can have a look here:
http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/

Does anyone know why IE 6 display some scrollbars inside the page when
I had "overflow: scroll;" to the style of the body ?
Click to expand...

Well you do have a mish-mosh of XHTML and HTML, in valid markup.

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/

[Invalid] Markup Validation of http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/ -
W3C Markup Validator


So as browsers try to "digest" all this they can come to different
conclusions. First start with valid markup, fix the errors, then see if
you get cross browsers consistency.
Click to expand...

This valid enough for ya?

http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/

For anyone unable to test in IE6:

http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/ie.gif
 
S

Safalra (Stephen Morley)

And that's a problem because...?

Rewrapping to fit the available space is how a fluid design *should*
work, is it not?
Click to expand...


Permit me to try to exaplin again: Pages that are dynamically updated
(through AJAX, for example) may change height *while the visitor is viewing
them*. If this causes a vertical scrollbar to appear or disappear then
content may jump (in fixed-width designs) or rewrap (in fluid designs).
Both effects are undesirable as the result is that parts of the page
content that haven't been changed jump around.
 
D

Defacta

Well you do have a mish-mosh of XHTML and HTML, in valid markup.
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://boxfly.free.....
Click to expand...

[Invalid] Markup Validation ofhttp://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/-
W3C Markup Validator
Click to expand...
So as browsers try to "digest" all this they can come to different
conclusions. First start with valid markup, fix the errors, then see if
you get cross browsers consistency.
Click to expand...

This valid enough for ya?

http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/

For anyone unable to test in IE6:

http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/ie.gif
Click to expand...

I have put it in the html tag:
<html style=\"overflow:scroll\" ...>

And now it works fine with Firefox and with IE6
:)
Vincent.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Safalra said:
Permit me to try to exaplin again: Pages that are dynamically updated
(through AJAX, for example) may change height *while the visitor is viewing
them*. If this causes a vertical scrollbar to appear or disappear then
content may jump (in fixed-width designs) or rewrap (in fluid designs).
Both effects are undesirable as the result is that parts of the page
content that haven't been changed jump around.
Click to expand...

Well then you have to take that into consideration when you design the
page. There are many ways to address the situation, many times the best
solution is approaching the design form a different direction to result
in a similar end. However with such hypothetical question there is not
specific hypothetical answer.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Defacta wrote:

Don't use inline styles
I have put it in the html tag:
<html style=\"overflow:scroll\" ...>
Click to expand...
^ ^
And I don't know why you are escaping quotes with "\"
And now it works fine with Firefox and with IE6
Click to expand...

Just put a style element in your document head:

<head>
<style type="text/css">
html { overflow: scroll; }
</style>
....

or better yet, link to a separate stylesheet file in the head

<head>
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="mystyle.css">
...
 

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