_JoyDef and _Control

[Displacer]

Hello, I'm trying to get the source from a old dos game (Rise Of The
Triad) to compile with openwatcom, and keep getting the undefined
symbol error for _JoyDef and _Control. Now I assume this means I'm
missing a library somewhere, does anyone know which one it could be?

Thanks!

 

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Hello, I'm trying to get the source from a old dos game (Rise Of The
Triad) to compile with openwatcom, and keep getting the undefined
symbol error for _JoyDef and _Control. Now I assume this means I'm
missing a library somewhere, does anyone know which one it could be?

(It's not very likely that anyone here does. You may have quite a
research project on your hands...)

Your post is off-topic for comp.lang.c. Please visit

http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt
http://c-faq.com
http://benpfaff.org/writings/clc/off-topic.html

for posting guidelines and frequently asked questions. Thank you.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

Hello, I'm trying to get the source from a old dos game (Rise Of The
Triad) to compile with openwatcom, and keep getting the undefined
symbol error for _JoyDef and _Control. Now I assume this means I'm
missing a library somewhere, does anyone know which one it could be?

Thanks!

Off topic. Not portable. Cant discuss it here. Blah, blah, blah.

Useful clc-related links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clique
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_programming_language

 

[Displacer]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:49:11 +0000 (UTC),

Off topic. Not portable. Cant discuss it here. Blah, blah, blah.

Useful clc-related links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clique
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_programming_language

No need to be nasty about it you dick

 

[mark_bluemel]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:49:11 +0000 (UTC),


No need to be nasty about it you dick

Amusingly, he was trying (I think) to be funny (or at least sarcastic).

To return to your original question (which is indeed, somewhat
off-topic here), you'd probably get more help from a group related to
the DOS platform, or perhaps an emulator group, than a generic C
language group.

 

[Displacer]

Amusingly, he was trying (I think) to be funny (or at least sarcastic).

To return to your original question (which is indeed, somewhat
off-topic here), you'd probably get more help from a group related to
the DOS platform, or perhaps an emulator group, than a generic C
language group.

Yes, I'll look around for dos specific. I looked through the faq for
this group before I posted, but apparently not well enough. Anyway
sorry about the off topic post.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

No need to be nasty about it you dick

I'm just saying the same thing as what the so-called "regulars" say,
dozens of times each day, but without the pseudo-sugar coating that makes
it sound like it is actually helpful, when we all know the obvious
content is "Ha! Bagged another one!".

The regs will, of course, deny that this is their intent, but we
all know they are lying. And, worst of all, we know *why* they are lying.

Further, the links that I provide are actually quite helpful for the
newbie in trying to comprehend why they get the weird responses that
they get here.

 

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

(e-mail address removed) (Kenny McCormack) wrote:

No need to be nasty about it you dick

Mr. McCormack is in fact such as you called him, as well as a resident
troll and a general idiot. You may wish to join many regular posters
and add him to your newsreader's killfile; it certainly spares one
much annoyance.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Kenny McCormack said:

I'm just saying the same thing as what the so-called "regulars" say,

Mr McCormack is in error here. Whilst the "regulars" do indeed point out
topicality issues, they very often endeavour to provide the name of a
newsgroup that is more relevant to the OP's question, something Mr
McCormack never seems to bother with...

dozens of times each day, but without the pseudo-sugar coating that makes
it sound like it is actually helpful,

....but redirection /is/ actually helpful, since it serves to match an OP up
with a relevant newsgroup where his question is topical and stands a chance
of being answered correctly.

when we all know the obvious
content is "Ha! Bagged another one!".

We don't all know any such thing, because it's not true. When I redirect
(which is rare nowadays), I do so in the hope that the redirection will
prove useful to the OP. "Bagged another one" doesn't enter into it. The
ascribing of motives to others is always a shaky practice, and Mr McCormack
has got it badly wrong here.

The regs will, of course, deny that this is their intent, but we
all know they are lying. And, worst of all, we know *why* they are lying.

Mr McCormack's accusation of deception is groundless, although it may well
be that he does not realise this.

Further, the links that I provide are actually quite helpful for the
newbie in trying to comprehend why they get the weird responses that
they get here.

Actually, this is partly true - *one* of the links Mr McCormack provides is
at least mildly relevant (the C language entry in the Wiki), although I
would hesitate to recommend that link myself.

But the clique thing is an obvious canard, since comp.lang.c has
traditionally proved very accepting of anyone and everyone who has taken
the time and trouble to learn the C language and is able to distinguish (or
learn to distinguish) clearly between the only barely related concepts of
"language", "implementation", and "third-party stuff".

As for the Asperger's link, I am not aware that Mr McCormack has any
credentials as a psychiatrist, so his opinions on psychiatric matters must
be taken with a colossal pinch of salt. To use "Asperger's Syndrome" as an
insult is to demean genuine sufferers of that condition. Some friends of
mine have a young child who has been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome (by
a competent psychiatrist), and I am therefore well aware that it is a not
even remotely amusing condition. It is not something to joke about. We may
reasonably conclude that, when a person labels another with Asperger's
Syndrome without having the relevant professional credentials so to do, it
is in fact the labeller who suffers... from Clueless Buffoon Syndrome.

 

[Keith Thompson]

[the usual crap]

No need to be nasty about it you dick

Kenny McCormack is simply a troll. I strongly recommend ignoring him.

 

[Flash Gordon]

Yes, I'll look around for dos specific. I looked through the faq for
this group before I posted, but apparently not well enough. Anyway
sorry about the off topic post.

Actually, if your question is considered to have an implicit, "I don't
know if these symbols are provided as standard and I'm doing something
wrong or they are non-standard" then the question is in my opinion
topical, it's just that the only topical answer is that they are not
standard and so you have to ask else where for more help.

However, your apology is appreciated and even more appreciated is that
you are accepting the redirect gracefully.

The following link give information about what a number of the regulars
consider topical, although there is a vocal minority who disagree,
http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/intro_to_clc

The comp.lang.c FAQ, which provides a vast amount of useful information
about C, is available from http://c-faq.com/ and Steve Summit deserves
thanks for making the result of his efforts available for free to all.

 

[Rod Pemberton]

Hello, I'm trying to get the source from a old dos game (Rise Of The
Triad) to compile with openwatcom, and keep getting the undefined
symbol error for _JoyDef and _Control. Now I assume this means I'm
missing a library somewhere, does anyone know which one it could be?

OpenWatcom lacks some of the libraries that were available in Watcom. Those
libraries weren't owned by Sybase. That could be the issue here. You'd
need to ask users who programmed in Watcom. OW's newsgroups are on a
proprietary server which, occasionally, doen't sync well with outside
newservers. So, I'd recommend your newsclient connecting directly to
nntp://news.openwatcom.org and then subscribe to openwatcom.users.c_cpp.


Rod Pemberton

 

[Rod Pemberton]

Kenny McCormack said:


Mr McCormack is in error here. Whilst the "regulars" do indeed point out
topicality issues, they very often endeavour to provide the name of a
newsgroup that is more relevant to the OP's question, something Mr
McCormack never seems to bother with...

Nor you, even though you should be fully aware of openwatcom.users.c_cpp
from prior conversations with me, Paul Hsieh, etc.?

But the clique thing is an obvious canard, since comp.lang.c has
traditionally proved very accepting of anyone and everyone who has taken
the time and trouble to learn the C language and is able to distinguish (or
learn to distinguish) clearly between the only barely related concepts of
"language", "implementation", and "third-party stuff".

So, you're saying there isn't a small group of individuals, I mean
"regulars," who attempt to suppress free speech here? BS.

As for the Asperger's link, I am not aware that Mr McCormack has any
credentials as a psychiatrist, so his opinions on psychiatric matters must
be taken with a colossal pinch of salt. To use "Asperger's Syndrome" as an
insult is to demean genuine sufferers of that condition. Some friends of
mine have a young child who has been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome (by
a competent psychiatrist), and I am therefore well aware that it is a not
even remotely amusing condition. It is not something to joke about. We may
reasonably conclude that, when a person labels another with Asperger's
Syndrome without having the relevant professional credentials so to do, it
is in fact the labeller who suffers... from Clueless Buffoon Syndrome.

Although they may not suffer from the an extreme (and disheartening) case of
Asperger's such as your friends' child, there are many here who exhibit very
close characteristics to Asperger's. They may therefore have a mild form of
it or another similar psychiatric problem which hasn't been diagnosed and
isn't being properly treated. So, what is the harm in educating them?


Rod Pemberton

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Rod Pemberton said:

Nor you,

I beg to differ. I have on many occasions offered alternative newsgroups
where the OP might get a better answer to his question. A Google Groups
search on this newsgroup will reveal many occasions when I have suggested
that people continue their quest for information on, say,
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32 or comp.unix.programmer or whatever.

even though you should be fully aware of openwatcom.users.c_cpp
from prior conversations with me, Paul Hsieh, etc.?

Actually, I'd never heard of it. You will observe, however, that (partly
because I did not know where to redirect the OP) I didn't post a
redirection on this occasion.

So, you're saying there isn't a small group of individuals, I mean
"regulars," who attempt to suppress free speech here?

Nobody here attempts to suppress free speech. Not those who complain about
non-topicality. Not those who complain about those people who complain
about non-topicality. And not even those who complain about those people
who complain about those people who complain about non-topicality.

Free speech does not imply the right to demand that people respond to your
question or statement in a particular way. People can, and do, post
whatever they like here, and that applies to the reactions that people post
to other people's articles. If you believe in free speech, you should
support people's right to redirect off-topic enquiries to more appropriate
newsgroups, since to forbid them that right would be to suppress /their/
freedom of speech.

BS.

You only think so because you haven't thought it through.

Although they may not suffer from the an extreme (and disheartening) case
of Asperger's such as your friends' child, there are many here who exhibit
very
close characteristics to Asperger's. They may therefore have a mild form
of it or another similar psychiatric problem which hasn't been diagnosed
and
isn't being properly treated. So, what is the harm in educating them?

You are begging the question (by which I mean that, in your "what is the
harm?" question, you are assuming the truth of the very claim that is being
challenged). Unless you have credentials as a professional psychiatrist, I
see no reason to give any weight to your claims about whether or not people
in this newsgroup are suffering from Asperger's Syndrome or some related
psychiatric illness.

As for the possible harm involved in unqualified non-psychiatrists
attempting to diagnose or treat putative psychiatric conditions of Usenet
contributors, or "educate" people about such putative conditions, I suppose
it's no worse than the possible harm involved in unqualified
non-electricians giving people advice on how to rewire their home. That is,
it is at best very unwise, and could possibly cause real and lasting
damage. Here in comp.lang.c we regularly see the stupidities that amateur C
programmers manage to inflict on their computers. No sane person would want
such people to mess with his computer. Likewise, no sane person would want
a bumbling quack psychiatrist to mess with his head.

Let's leave psychiatry to the psychiatrists, and focus on C programming
instead. It's what we're good at.

 

[Rod Pemberton]

Rod Pemberton said:


I beg to differ. I have on many occasions offered alternative newsgroups
where the OP might get a better answer to his question. A Google Groups
search on this newsgroup will reveal many occasions when I have suggested
that people continue their quest for information on, say,
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32 or comp.unix.programmer or whatever.


Actually, I'd never heard of it. You will observe, however, that (partly
because I did not know where to redirect the OP) I didn't post a
redirection on this occasion.


Nobody here attempts to suppress free speech. Not those who complain about
non-topicality. Not those who complain about those people who complain
about non-topicality. And not even those who complain about those people
who complain about those people who complain about non-topicality.

Free speech does not imply the right to demand that people respond to your
question or statement in a particular way. People can, and do, post
whatever they like here, and that applies to the reactions that people post
to other people's articles. If you believe in free speech, you should
support people's right to redirect off-topic enquiries to more appropriate
newsgroups, since to forbid them that right would be to suppress /their/
freedom of speech.

Doubletalk. You just stated that is acceptable that one group uses their
freedom of speech to suppress the freedom of speech of others. That is the
entire problem...

But there is a difference between the two groups: politeness and respect.
If you aren't interested in the conversation, be polite: shut up, be
respectful: shut up, let those who are talk without interruption or
harassment. The conversation will end in due course.

You only think so because you haven't thought it through.

More BS. What do you think my IQ is? Given that "genius" is usually four
standard deviations above the mean, tell me how many standard deviations
above the mean you think mine is. I want to see how close to "genius" you
place me...

You are begging the question (by which I mean that, in your "what is the
harm?" question, you are assuming the truth of the very claim that is being
challenged).

No. I'm trying to get you to realize that potentially helping one
individual through his or her own self-diagnose of mental illness, correct
or not, by reading about Asperger's is important. I would think that given
that you actually know someone with Aspergers, that it'd be especially
important to you to have the whole World read up on it. Why do you seem so
cold or indifferent? Do you care about your friend's child?

Unless you have credentials as a professional psychiatrist, I
see no reason to give any weight to your claims about whether or not people
in this newsgroup are suffering from Asperger's Syndrome or some related
psychiatric illness.

You are viewing this as a "Me" vs. "Pemberton" issue. You seem to be
missing the point that someone will say: "What is this Asperger's that
McCormack keeps posting links to?" and then read it. And, perhaps,
recognize that they have a problem and seek professional help.

As for the possible harm involved in unqualified non-psychiatrists
attempting to diagnose or treat putative psychiatric conditions of Usenet
contributors, or "educate" people about such putative conditions, I suppose
it's no worse than the possible harm involved in unqualified
non-electricians giving people advice on how to rewire their home. That is,
it is at best very unwise, and could possibly cause real and lasting
damage.

You presume that most people have common sense or sufficient experience.
Most don't. They need to fail or have something indicate that they have a
problem that needs to be fixed. Without reading an article on Asperger's,
how would someone with a mild case ever become aware of it? The answer is:
they wouldn't. They aren't going to seek professional help unless they
believe there is an existing problem.

Let's leave psychiatry to the psychiatrists, and focus on C programming
instead. It's what we're good at.

I'm not saying that I agree 100%, but it's a fair enough ideology. The
problem is that the "regulars" only seem to apply it to others when it suits
you. You never apply it to yourselves. Do you see no contradiction to your
currently stated ideology with the statements you made the other day in "Get
Pedia"?


Rod Pemberton

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Rod Pemberton said:

Doubletalk. You just stated that is acceptable that one group uses their
freedom of speech to suppress the freedom of speech of others.

Not so. I just stated that it is acceptable for people to use their freedom
of speech to request that other people observe Usenet conventions. No
suppression is involved. Off-topic articles *do* appear here. Therefore,
they are not being suppressed. This is obvious, yes? (And if they did not
appear, that would not necessarily mean they are being suppressed. It might
just mean that everybody finally got clued up to the importance of
topicality. Not that that's terribly likely...)

That is the entire problem...

No, the problem is that people need to learn to look for bananas in a
greengrocer's shop rather than an ironmongery.

But there is a difference between the two groups: politeness and respect.
If you aren't interested in the conversation, be polite: shut up,

Now who's trying to suppress free speech?

What do you think my IQ is?

I shudder to think.

They may therefore have a mild form of [Asperger's] or another
similar psychiatric problem which hasn't been diagnosed and
isn't being properly treated. So, what is the harm in educating them?

You are begging the question (by which I mean that, in your "what is the
harm?" question, you are assuming the truth of the very claim that is
being challenged).

No. I'm trying to get you to realize that potentially helping one
individual through his or her own self-diagnose of mental illness, correct
or not, by reading about Asperger's is important.

Pop psychiatry is damaging.

I would think that
given that you actually know someone with Aspergers, that it'd be
especially
important to you to have the whole World read up on it. Why do you seem
so
cold or indifferent?

It is not indifference or coldness that leads me to suggest that psychiatry
should be left to psychiatrists. Rather, it is plain ordinary common sense.

Do you care about your friend's child?

Naturally. And he is not well served by non-psychiatrists who pollute the
environment of discourse by using the term "Asperger's Syndrome"
inappropriately.

You are viewing this as a "Me" vs. "Pemberton" issue.

Not so. After all, it was not you who misused the term in this way.

You presume that most people have common sense or sufficient experience.
Most don't.

I guess I have more faith in people than you do.

I'm not saying that I agree 100%, but it's a fair enough ideology. The
problem is that the "regulars" only seem to apply it to others when it
suits
you. You never apply it to yourselves. Do you see no contradiction to
your currently stated ideology with the statements you made the other day
in "Get Pedia"?

Okay, you lost me (because I can't remember what I said). Feel free to point
out the alleged contradiction more explicitly if you wish. If you do, I'll
consider then whether I agree that there is a contradiction.

 

[Displacer]

OpenWatcom lacks some of the libraries that were available in Watcom. Those
libraries weren't owned by Sybase. That could be the issue here. You'd
need to ask users who programmed in Watcom. OW's newsgroups are on a
proprietary server which, occasionally, doen't sync well with outside
newservers. So, I'd recommend your newsclient connecting directly to
nntp://news.openwatcom.org and then subscribe to openwatcom.users.c_cpp.


Rod Pemberton

Yes I found what I needed there. Seems I opened a can of worms here,
but being pointed to a site on mental illness for asking a off topic
question was uncalled for. Of course my rude reply to that was rather
childish, and I apologize for that.

With that being said I thank everyone for pointing me in the direction
I needed to go.

 

[Rod Pemberton]

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 03:52:26 -0400, "Rod Pemberton"

Yes I found what I needed there

Yes, I read that. They were actually _surprisingly_ nice to you. They
probably had fond memories of that game.

but being pointed to a site on mental illness for asking a off topic
question was uncalled for.

You'd have to take that up with McCormack. FYI, you shouln't take it
personally. This is a _recurring_ argument between McCormack and Heathfield
(every 4 to 6 months, Healthfield can't seem to remember past that
point...). As I stated to Healthfield, I think it's important that people
learn about Aspergers. And, there are some people here who need to read it.


Rod Pemberton

 

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Yes I found what I needed there. Seems I opened a can of worms here,
but being pointed to a site on mental illness for asking a off topic
question was uncalled for. Of course my rude reply to that was rather
childish, and I apologize for that.

As I noted in my reply, and as Mr. Heathfield also implied, Mr.
McCormack is a troll, the post you are referring to being but one of
many damning pieces of evidence against Mr. McCormack. Please do not
interpret Mr. McCormack's behavior as typical of comp.lang.c posters.

 

[Displacer]

As I noted in my reply, and as Mr. Heathfield also implied, Mr.
McCormack is a troll, the post you are referring to being but one of
many damning pieces of evidence against Mr. McCormack. Please do not
interpret Mr. McCormack's behavior as typical of comp.lang.c posters.

Nope, everyone else is very polite and helpful.
Another question if I may, I'm running into a lot of other errors
which have to do with C syntax and such, is it ok to post questions on
those issues here? (nothing to do with compilers)

Thanks again!