_JoyDef and _Control

[Kenny McCormack]

Then by that logic, everything that anyone posts -- including
admonitions that this is a newsgroup about C, and that better help for
platform-specific problems is available in other newsgroups -- is
appropriate as well. If you really believe what you've claimed above,
where do you get off complaining about what other people post?

That's an old chestnut of an infinite regress. Someone posts something
that somebody else doesn't like (usually thinly veiled in a claim that
it is "not appropriate" or "off topic"). So person B posts that person
A shouldn't have posted that. Then person A (ludicrously) invokes the
First Amendment and gets all huffy about free speech. Then person B
states (as you have) that if person A were so infatuated with free
speech, he'd have no problem with person B's post. Then person A
objects to person B's posting, ... And so on, and so on.

I'm in comp.lang.c because I want informed discussions about C, not
amateur psychoanalyis of other posters or endless discussions about
the minutiae of operating systems and compilers I don't use.

There is a reason that "Rule #1" on the Usenet is: If you don't like it,
ignore it and move on (*). Violations of this rule never lead to
anything productive.

(*) Except for this group, for some reason...

 

[Herbert Rosenau]

NO! It is an unmoderated newsgroup where anything anyone posts is topical
whether or not it happens to be on C. Take it to a moderated newsgroup if
you _only_ _want_ discussions about C.

You've identified yourself als twit now. Piss off usenet until you
knows what it is, what it means and what it is used for.


--
Tschau/Bye
Herbert

Visit http://www.ecomstation.de the home of german eComStation
eComStation 1.2 Deutsch ist da!

 

[Herbert Rosenau]

I didn't comment on whether or not you were serious; though if you were
you must have either an extreme lack of understanding of social
discussion in general and Usenet in particular, or be trolling.

It makes no sense to discuss with twits. Put this twit in your filters
and stop anything that has to do with him.


--
Tschau/Bye
Herbert

Visit http://www.ecomstation.de the home of german eComStation
eComStation 1.2 Deutsch ist da!

 

[Kenny McCormack]

It makes no sense to discuss with twits. Put this twit in your filters
and stop anything that has to do with him.

Which brings up the very real question: Why do we, any of us, bother
posting to Usenet? For those who *seek* help, the answer is clear: They
are willing to prostrate themselves in front of those they perceive to be
exports, in the hope, infinitesimal though it may be, of actually
getting some useful help. That they almost get (some variation of) "Off
topic. Can't discuss it here, etc" doesn't seem to deter them (much).

But what us? Why do we do it? What needs of ours are being met?
I, at least, am honest about it. I do it because it is fun and I enjoy
it. But about KT, RH, et al? What do they get out of it? Are their
lives this empty? Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

You've identified yourself als twit now. Piss off usenet until you
knows what it is, what it means and what it is used for.

See my other post. Thank you.

 

[Mark McIntyre]

NO! It is an unmoderated newsgroup where anything anyone posts is topical
whether or not it happens to be on C. Take it to a moderated newsgroup if
you _only_ _want_ discussions about C.

So you admit that you consider yourself above the rules of ettiquette
that hold in this society, and have an arrogant disregard for the
agreed standards of the groups with which you wish to interact.
Interesting.

Do you understand the difference between a moderated and unmoderated
newsgroup? (No.)

Do you understand that unmoderated does not equal free-for-all?
Apparently not.

And by the way, my son has Aspergers. So **** off already with your
condecending attitude. We don't need prats like you trying to
'educate' people.

--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

 

[Jordan Abel]

Do you understand that unmoderated does not equal free-for-all?
Apparently not.

There's irony in here somewhere. I just don't know how to explain it

And by the way, my son has Aspergers.

I have it, but didn't figure it had any bearing on the discussion.
I figured it wasn't worth the effort to get offended, since I already
knew Kenny's an ass*.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Jordan Abel said:

I already knew Kenny's an ass*.

*language may not be appropriate,

I wasn't sure what you meant, so I found the word "ass" in Chambers, and
this is what I read:

"a small, usu grey, long-eared animal of the horse genus; a dull, stupid
fellow, a fool (colloq)".

I presume from your hesitation in using the word that you are not talking
about horses, but on this occasion the colloquialism seems perfectly
appropriate to me.

 

[Herbert Rosenau]

Which brings up the very real question: Why do we, any of us, bother
posting to Usenet? For those who *seek* help, the answer is clear: They
are willing to prostrate themselves in front of those they perceive to be
exports, in the hope, infinitesimal though it may be, of actually
getting some useful help. That they almost get (some variation of) "Off
topic. Can't discuss it here, etc" doesn't seem to deter them (much).

But what us? Why do we do it? What needs of ours are being met?
I, at least, am honest about it. I do it because it is fun and I enjoy
it. But about KT, RH, et al? What do they get out of it? Are their
lives this empty? Enquiring minds want to know.

I read a lot of groups I'm interested in. On some of them I will never
post because on lack of fundamental knowledge. On others I like to
post because I have the knoweledge oft the themes ontopic there and I
like to help others asking for help.

In some groups I find kooks, trolls, twits who have all no brain but
interested in disturbing any communication. Sometimes it is easy to
get them out of the group, sometimes it is not. When the number of
kooks, twits and trolls is less then filters can help - even as I
don't like to use them, someteimes it's the only solution. When a new
expert of disturbing groups comes it it can help to get them in many
filters quickly by pointing that out - and having the group clean
again thereafter.

When nothing helps the group gets out of control, out of interest and
into slum - anybody who is interesting in discussion or helping others
on that theme will live the group and another theme gets out of help.

--
Tschau/Bye
Herbert

Visit http://www.ecomstation.de the home of german eComStation
eComStation 1.2 Deutsch ist da!

 

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

In some groups I find kooks, trolls, twits who have all no brain but
interested in disturbing any communication.

Kenny is exactly such a troll/twit and you will be much happier
filtering him rather than attempting to discuss anything sensible with
him.

 

[Jordan Abel]

Jordan Abel said:


I wasn't sure what you meant, so I found the word "ass" in Chambers, and
this is what I read:

"a small, usu grey, long-eared animal of the horse genus; a dull, stupid
fellow, a fool (colloq)".

I presume from your hesitation in using the word that you are not talking
about horses, but on this occasion the colloquialism seems perfectly
appropriate to me.

Right, I forgot - you're british, aren't you? "ass" is a north american
variant form of the word you might instead spell as "arse", and is
generally numbered among the so-called "bad words", though it's
certainly milder than most others. You're basically right about "seems
perfectly appropriate", though, in so far as I could not find
a substitute word that would have fit as well.

 

[Frederick Gotham]

Jordan Abel:

"ass" is a north american variant form of the word you might instead
spell as "arse", and is generally numbered among the so-called "bad
words", though it's certainly milder than most others.

"ass" isn't censored in daytime television here in Ireland, nor is "bitch".

It's quite funny to watch overseas channels which censor these words. I was
watching the medical comedy, "Scrubs", the other day on the channel,
"Paramount Comedy", and they censored "ass" and "bitch" quite a few times
throughout the episode.

On the Irish channels, they go uncensored.

 

[Charlton Wilbur]

Kenny is exactly such a troll/twit and you will be much happier
filtering him rather than attempting to discuss anything sensible
with him.

I'm not sure he's a troll, because that implies that he's doing what
he does with the specific intention of disrupting communication. I
think he's doing what he does because he thinks the end result will
*improve* the newsgroup -- because the focus of what Kenny calls the
clique on portable standard C does seem hostile to people who are
unfamiliar with the concepts of portable and standard languages.

But the problem with his theory is one I've seen in several fora. The
more tolerant a group is of lazy newbies, and the more effort a group
puts into coddling the lazy newbies, the more likely the gurus are to
wander off to do things they find more interesting. It *seems* like a
good idea to be tolerant of newbies, and to say, "you know, $newsgroup
is a better place to ask this, but because I'm nice, I'll answer it
here." And 7 or 8 out of 10 newbies get the hint, and ask further
questions in the other newsgroup; but the message the other 2 or 3
take away is "I asked a question in comp.lang.c, and it got answered."

And then they ask more basic questions, and the people who want to be
helpful help until they are burnt out and then they go away; and by
the time the first round of helpful people are gone, the gurus have
long since left, and the forum is no longer useful for beginners
(because the helpful people in the second round or later are unlikely
to have the same level of expertise as the burnt out people or the
gurus) or for experts (because the gurus have left).

Of course, if Kenny can't see this happening in other places, or
considers it a positive development, then he most likely is a troll --
just one with longer-term plans than most.

Charlton

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Charlton Wilbur said:

And then they ask more basic questions, and the people who want to be
helpful help until they are burnt out and then they go away; and by
the time the first round of helpful people are gone, the gurus have
long since left, and the forum is no longer useful for beginners
(because the helpful people in the second round or later are unlikely
to have the same level of expertise as the burnt out people or the
gurus) or for experts (because the gurus have left).

This is already happening. In the last few years we've lost Christian Bau,
Tanmoy Bhattacharya, Billy Chambless, Doug Gwyn, Lawrence Kirby, Kaz
Kylheku, Mikey Lee, Dan Pop, Will Rose, Michael Rubinstein, Jens
Schweikhardt, Richard Stamp, Tom Torfs, Steve Summit (effectively), Stefan
Wilms, and quite a few others besides.

 

[Keith Thompson]

I'm not sure he's a troll, because that implies that he's doing what
he does with the specific intention of disrupting communication. I
think he's doing what he does because he thinks the end result will
*improve* the newsgroup -- because the focus of what Kenny calls the
clique on portable standard C does seem hostile to people who are
unfamiliar with the concepts of portable and standard languages.

[...]

You give him far too much credit. Kenny is a troll; he has proudly
said so himself. Take a look at his posting history.

It's conceivable, I suppose, that he has some other motivation, but I
really don't care. I judge him by his repeated actions over a period
of years. And the sooner we stop discussing him, and giving him the
attention he seems to want, the better.