Bristol, UK, Harbourside website, Comments please ?

[Barry Pearson]

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Barry

CW wrote:
[snip]

PS: nobody in star trek surfs the web even with connections
thousands of times faster than broadband - why is that

Holodecks.

Hmm. And you can just imagine what the main use of a real holodeck
would be!

Star Trek - The Next Generation, Episode 69: Hollow Pursuits (1987)
http://www.scifilm.org/tv/st-tng/st-tng3-21.html

 

[Andrew Banks]

I thought it was a well known notion that Flash and user-friendly don't

belong in the same sentance.

Well that just bollocks for a start

 

[Bill Logan]

their target is.

It doesn't matter where they are or how much money they have.
The majority of users *still* don't have broadband. So while the target
audience is more likely to have broadband, that doesn't negate the fact that
the majority will still have dial-up.

And the point is . . . . ?

 

[William Tasso]

...
where the majority of them will already have a fast connection anyway.

If you want to sell to people with money, you have to package your
product in a way that appeals to the wealthy.

Indeed, but there is no correlation between ability/willingness to spend and
technology employed - especially when it comes to telecomms. Speaking for
the UK only - there are still large parts of the country that have extremely
healthy (financially) demographics but unless the community installs
satellite technology, the net connections will remain poor to say the least.
Many of these areas don't even have cell phone coverage either so 3g is not
available to them even though they can afford it.

 

[SpaceGirl]

Well that just bollocks for a start

 

[Toby A Inkster]

PS: nobody in star trek surfs the web even with connections thousands of
times faster than broadband - why is that

Imagine the crappy ping time to Earth from deep space!

Bandwidth isn't the only important issue you see -- the distance the data
has to travel would make the web unusable.

 

[2gy76s]

 

[kayodeok]

Imagine the crappy ping time to Earth from deep space!

Bandwidth isn't the only important issue you see -- the distance
the data has to travel would make the web unusable.

If there is the web in Star Trek, it won't be called the "World Wide
Web"; I think it would probably be routed via Sub-space (or if you
watch "Voyager", - folding space) and utilise those Alien Array
thingies which are dotted all over the star trek universe.

 

[Bill Logan]

Indeed, but there is no correlation between

ability/willingness to spend and

technology employed - especially when it comes to telecomms. Speaking for
the UK only - there are still large parts of the country that have extremely
healthy (financially) demographics but unless the community installs
satellite technology, the net connections will remain poor to say the least.
Many of these areas don't even have cell phone coverage either so 3g is not
available to them even though they can afford it.

Thats what I thought also - until I found out the farmer
next to me has a satelite up/down link and does all his
telecoms / internet etc via that. (mind you, he is
***very*** well endowed (financially

Our govt has also just begun a 'broad band to rural area's'
programme to ensure that all parts of the country can hook
up without the hassle of connecting via the local fence
line!

 

[Eric Jarvis]

[snip]

A totally unscientific survey, of just me, tells me that broadband, especially
always-on broadband, enables one to think about information, news, facts, etc,
in a very different way.

Instead of assuming things, I check. I have pe-configured Google news-searches
for updates on specialist topics. Every day I find out new things that I
thought were so but are not. I build searches, etc, into my workflow, to
produce stuff of (hopefully) higher quality.

It is perhaps a bit like living in a library - but you only appreciate living
in a library if you get into the habit of looking at the books.

I've been doing that since I first got dial up...though these days it
means having Opera set up with a default of images and scripting off,
otherwise it would take forever to find anything...the thing that gets to
me is that even when I've got the right book immediately to hand I'll
still look on the web first

it's better than a library though...it's a library with a tea room
containing a huge range of experts on various subjects

 

[Charles Sweeney]

I suppose... but its the current trendy, and I doubt it's going to get any
easier for narrowband users. Broadband user demand more and more broadband
content - which means they are more likely to fall for the slick graphics
and pretty convent, buy products etc etc. It becomes a self perpetuating
cycle, because then the market realises the big online spenders are the
broadband users

What a lot of shite.

When will you and your ilk ever learn??

I'll tell you when. When your clueless clients' are losing out to their
competitors who understand the nature of the medium and surfers.

Some may never learn, which will at least keep you in work.

So when do you think Google will enjoy your enlightenment about all these
users with super-fast connections, and fill their site with images and
videos?

Speaking of target markets for yachts, with their broadband connections,
demonstrating your cluelessness. Do you know anyone who can afford a luxury
yacht? I do. He can't even use email!!

Not a fucking clue.

 

[Charles Sweeney]

Well of course... I was making a point about targets. If you're designing a
mass market site (search engine, for example), it would be pretty stupid to
use heavy graphics... or Flash!

Mir. You have used this crap before about target markets to justify heavy
sites.

In fact you do it every time.

Lets say we believe you. The up-to-speed prospect is a professional, lots
of disposable income, good computer and fast connection.

This self-same person is also very mobile. Is he still your fucking target
when he's trying to access such sites on his laptop??

Not a fucking clue.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Speaking of target markets for yachts, with their broadband connections,
demonstrating your cluelessness. Do you know anyone who can afford a luxury
yacht? I do. He can't even use email!!

I know three people at least in that bracket...all three use
broadband...two from desktops, both of whom have expressed irritation at
the amount of junk they have to download to get at anything useful...the
other tends to use a small handheld or laptop whilst out and about

what happens at the high income end is that a wider range of browsing
options become available...so it's worth offering them high quality
streaming video...but it's also worth allowing basic access to the content
in a seriously stripped down form

the people with serious money tend to be the people who don't like sitting
around waiting for stuff to happen

 

[Karl Groves]

And the point is . . . . ?

Since you fancy yourself to be an intelligent person, I'm quite surprised
you can't figure this out on your own.

-Karl

 

[SpaceGirl]

designing

Mir. You have used this crap before about target markets to justify heavy
sites.

In fact you do it every time.

Lets say we believe you. The up-to-speed prospect is a professional, lots
of disposable income, good computer and fast connection.

This self-same person is also very mobile. Is he still your fucking target
when he's trying to access such sites on his laptop??

Not a fucking clue.

Because that's a different target... hand held devices are used by different
sorts of people for different reasons. You're not likely to find someone
doing their monthly Tescos shopping via a cellphone browser; they MAY want
to get the latest music news. NME have a mobile-device specific site.
Different sorts of media for different devices and different people, that's
all.

 

[Neal]

Judging by the product, I'd say those who are still on dialup are not the
target market

I disagree. Financial success does not mean you have a high-speed
connction available. How do you manage a high-speed connection on YOUR
yacht?

 

[SpaceGirl]

What a lot of shite.

When will you and your ilk ever learn??

You're trying to apply labels. It doesn't work; we design sites here using
whatever technology is best suited for the clients needs. Your "ilk" seems
to think there is no room in the market for multimedia online. It's terribly
short-sighted. It'd be just as short-sighted as assuming everyone has
broadband...

I'll tell you when. When your clueless clients' are losing out to their
competitors who understand the nature of the medium and surfers.

And you call me clueless? Can't you admit that sometimes media rich sites
are exactly what the audience AND client wants?

Some may never learn, which will at least keep you in work.

Nice cop out.

So when do you think Google will enjoy your enlightenment about all these
users with super-fast connections, and fill their site with images and
videos?

Who cares? Google is going down the pan. It's not up to you or I Charles...
just look what's happening out there in the real world...

Speaking of target markets for yachts, with their broadband connections,
demonstrating your cluelessness. Do you know anyone who can afford a luxury
yacht? I do. He can't even use email!!

Just one, and he's not that smart

Not a fucking clue.

Projecting again?

 

[SpaceGirl]

I disagree. Financial success does not mean you have a high-speed
connction available. How do you manage a high-speed connection on YOUR
yacht?

I was making a point about target markets... I don't know what his market
is... that's why you research these things, rather than sticking up some
pretty site that takes forever to download. There's not like 'one universal
design' for the web. The web is more than just an information resource; it's
a form of entertainment and a advertising channel too.

 

[Barry Pearson]

Well of course... I was making a point about targets. If you're
designing a mass market site (search engine, for example), it would
be pretty stupid to use heavy graphics... or Flash!

[snip]
Lets say we believe you. The up-to-speed prospect is a professional,
lots of disposable income, good computer and fast connection.

This self-same person is also very mobile. Is he still your fucking
target when he's trying to access such sites on his laptop??

[snip]

Different times of day, for different purposes. (I use broadband from my
laptop!)

You need to be aware of DILO - "Day In the Life Of". An established marketing
analysis technique. Not "can this person access this site via the PDA?". But
"does this person have the opportunity to access this site when it matters?"

On the move, that person may want urgent emails & breaking news. At the office
or at home, much more information & analysis.

 

[Barry Pearson]

I was making a point about target markets... I don't know what his
market is... that's why you research these things, rather than
sticking up some pretty site that takes forever to download. There's
not like 'one universal design' for the web. The web is more than
just an information resource; it's a form of entertainment and a
advertising channel too.

Yes. The web comprises many implicit communities, with their own requirements
& capabilities.

Photographers will expect & tolerate things that others won't. 100KB images,
at least 700px across. An assumption that the audience had calibrated
monitors, or at least won't complain if they haven't. Etc.

There isn't a standard viewer. It is important to understand the audience.