Bristol, UK, Harbourside website, Comments please ?

[Bill Logan]

If you're
designing your fucking
target

Because that's a different target... hand held devices are used by different
sorts of people for different reasons. You're not likely to find someone
doing their monthly Tescos shopping via a cellphone browser; they MAY want
to get the latest music news. NME have a mobile-device specific site.
Different sorts of media for different devices and different people, that's
all.

A-hem, if I may jump in here? While even I recognise that
access to broadband is not universal I note that at least
here broadband is now becvomming widely available on mobile
devices. Cards are out there that enable hand helds and
laptops to connect via broadband using the mobile phone
system. Our telecom provides a jetstream service which,
depending on B/W plan selected can even be affordable. Large
numbers of 'mobile' execs are now seen roaming the streets
or sitting in sidewalk cafes sharing video presentations
with clients elsewhere. For around $50 month you can have a
flat rate plan that gives video quality browsing. Personally
a cell phone or hand held type screen is too small for me
but a lap top in the car checking out a multimedia or splash
type site is a reality.

 

[Charles Sweeney]

I use broadband from my laptop!

Aye, and when did you last use it with your phone!?

Slow aint the word, even with the "quickest" phone connection.

 

[Bill Logan]

Since you fancy yourself to be an intelligent person, I'm quite surprised
you can't figure this out on your own.

Perhaps if you fancied yourself the same way you might also
question the logic of the above statement.

Think about it - where is the justification for denying
those who can afford broadband and who appreciate multimedia
type sites (that only work well on broadband) simply on the
basis that not everyone can do so?

It is a bit like saying that so long as most people can only
afford McDonalds and whose taste buds are geared to that
level we should not provide gourmet restaurants for the few
who can afford and enjoy the additional benefits provided.

Yeah, right - in Russia maybe - 20 years ago perhaps.

 

[Neal]

Who cares? Google is going down the pan. It's not up to you or I
Charles...
just look what's happening out there in the real world...

Enlighten me, this is news...

 

[Bill Logan]

I disagree. Financial success does not mean you have a high-speed
connction available. How do you manage a high-speed connection on YOUR
yacht?

I can answer that! Ever hear of Satelite? Ever hear of broad
band radio?
There is pleasure in checking your e-mail and browsing your
favourite game site from the middle of the Pacific.

 

[Charles Sweeney]

Cards are out there that enable hand helds and laptops to connect via

broadband using the mobile phone

News to me Mr Logan. A wee link perhaps?

I looked into this with my own phone provider, Orange, not so long ago.
Also looked at some others.

The fastest service just about came up to normal dial-up speed.

 

[Alan J. Flavell]

I can answer that! Ever hear of Satelite?

Sure have, though the speling[1] was a bit different. Ever heard of
RTT and its effect on TCP? Satellite is great for broadcast, but not
so great for interaction with a server.

[1]please have your sic bag ready :-}

 

[Karl Groves]

Perhaps if you fancied yourself the same way you might also
question the logic of the above statement.

Think about it - where is the justification for denying
those who can afford broadband and who appreciate multimedia
type sites (that only work well on broadband) simply on the
basis that not everyone can do so?

My statements on this matter have revolved around the fact that although
more affluent people *can afford* broadband, they still don't have
significantly higher adoption rates of the service - at least not in the
amounts required to make the business decision to create a site that
requires broadband.

-karl

 

[Bill Logan]

to connect via
broadband using the mobile phone

News to me Mr Logan. A wee link perhaps?

I looked into this with my own phone provider, Orange, not so long ago.
Also looked at some others.

The fastest service just about came up to normal dial-up

speed.

Telecoms jetstream is the slowest and the link is below. Im
in a bit of a hurry to collect my wife so I will hunt up the
other links - particularly good ones with vodaphone - and
post them later.

http://www.telecom.co.nz/content/0,3900,202032-200524,00.htm
l

 

[Charles Sweeney]

My statements on this matter have revolved around the fact that although
more affluent people *can afford* broadband, they still don't have
significantly higher adoption rates of the service

Paradoxically. It is not uncommon for wealthy people to live in rural
areas, those worse served by broadband.

So you could say that affluent people are less likely to have broadband.

 

[Charles Sweeney]

Telecoms jetstream is the slowest and the link is below. Im
in a bit of a hurry to collect my wife so I will hunt up the
other links - particularly good ones with vodaphone - and
post them later.

http://www.telecom.co.nz/content/0,3900,202032-200524,00.htm
l

Thanks Bill. That's the type I've seen, works about average dial-up speed.
It was the broadband speeds that intriqued me!

 

[Stuart Millington]

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:12:50 GMT, "Andrew Banks"

[To 2gy76s, please don't snip attribution lines as they are there for
a good reason.]

Well that just bollocks for a start

Your comment is, within this context, bollocks. How am I, as a
user, meant to bookmark an individual page/frame within a Flash
"site"/animation? Oh, sorry, am I not allowed to do that? Do I have to
go back to YOUR "entrance page" each time I want to look at a specific
page within the "site". How do I view the site with graphics off and a
text-only display, for either bandwidth or visibility issues? Flash,
used in this - broken - manner *is* user-UNfriendly.

Flash can be used sensibly, as can cars and guns. However, in this
case, the use of Flash shows that the "designer" either knows SFA
about the web medium for which they are, supposedly, designing or they
just don't care and have good liability insurance in place. Either
this was designed by an over-paid BS'er or a kiddie. Neither of which
are likely to have read the recent press articles about discriminating
websites.

After a quick browse, I don't see anything that (aside from the
pointless slide-in/out's) could not have been achieved with an
accessible HTML layout.

 

[Bill Logan]

Thanks Bill. That's the type I've seen, works about average dial-up speed.
It was the broadband speeds that intriqued me!

Sorry about that Charles, was in a bit of a rush - Telecoms
jetstream does do braodband but at the lower end of the
scale, probably because they are committed to CDMA!

Amoungst the better options here is the like of Walker
wireless or Vodaphone who now offer GPRS so we are talking
about speeds in the range of 1.5 - 2 Mbps which is as fast
if not faster than the average home broadband user gets?

The govt has started to release access to the 3G spectrum
and Vodaphone now provides the service which includes voice
over internet as well as video conferenceing, messaging,
internet access etc.

This link will give a bit of background but it is dated from
last year. Vodaphone has since got the ball rolling.
http://www.gsmmobile.co.nz/3GUTMS.htm

Here is vodaphones site link but again - it is a bit short
on info although you should get enough to see what I mean.
http://www.vodaphone.co.nz/business/10.2.1.7_mobile_data.jsp
?hd=4yourbusiness&st=need2know&ss=mobiledata

Unfortunately - to get any real answers you need to phone
them :-(

Hope that gives a better picture. I can get more links if
you need for the likes of walker and other broad band
operators who are now jumping on the mobile bandwagon down
here.

Mobile broad band is here and it is growing fast!

 

[Eric Bohlman]

But people looking for up-market property will probably surf from work
(my boss at the last place certainly did, plus all the calls to estate
agents, etc, simply because that's when they were open - he worked
late to make the time up, and the MD was perfectly happy with this),
where the majority of them will already have a fast connection anyway.

You've got to be careful here. The company may have a big fat pipe to the
Internet, but that pipe might well be shared by thousands or tens of
thousands of users.

If you want to sell to people with money, you have to package your
product in a way that appeals to the wealthy. Netto sells some
excellent products, but by and large the wealthy don't shop there
because it doesn't carry the same ambience as, say, M&S.

And do you have evidence that what "appeals to the wealthy" is lots of
gimcracks?

Jakob Nielsen and others have actually studied Web users by using eye-
tracking equipment. They've discovered a rather interesting thing about a
lot of the visual elements that designers claim make their pages more
exciting and are therefore worth the increased load time: the users' eyes
never land on them. If the user is asked why, the response is usually "I
thought it was an ad."

 

[William Tasso]

ability/willingness to spend and
Thats what I thought also - until I found out the farmer
next to me has a satelite up/down link and does all his
telecoms / internet etc via that. (mind you, he is
***very*** well endowed (financially

That's part of the joy of the human condition - there will always be
exceptions and oddballs that stand out at either extreme. btw: a satellite
link installation is (financially) within reach of anyone who would use
broadband otherwise (in the UK).

Anyway, the point is ... there is still no excuse for bloat even if
broadband were available everywhere.

Our govt has also just begun a 'broad band to rural area's'
programme to ensure that all parts of the country can hook
up without the hassle of connecting via the local fence
line!

yep - ours too. Conspiracy theorists may form an orderly queue.

 

[William Tasso]

...
You're not likely to
find someone doing their monthly Tescos shopping via a cellphone
browser;

you just got to be kidding

 

[William Tasso]

Imagine the crappy ping time to Earth from deep space!

Bandwidth isn't the only important issue you see -- the distance the
data has to travel would make the web unusable.

The word you are searching for is: latency

 

[SOR]

<uk.net.web.authoring , William Tasso , (e-mail address removed)>
<[email protected]>

The word you are searching for is: latency

That word is no longer used in the 23rd century .

 

[Bill Logan]

That's part of the joy of the human condition - there will always be
exceptions and oddballs that stand out at either extreme. btw: a satellite
link installation is (financially) within reach of anyone who would use
broadband otherwise (in the UK).

Boo Hoo, looks like I am the exception, looked around again,
(now I know what I am looking for) and found that I am
surrounded by farmers (5) and 1 talk show (lifestyler) host
who also have those sat linky thingys :-( - I gotta get with
the programme otherwise they will start calling me pinky!

Anyway, the point is ... there is still no excuse for bloat even if
broadband were available everywhere.

Aww, thats not fair - bloat is good - ask anyone who loves
mutton fat (reminds me, roast lamb and fresh mint peas from
the garden for dinner - mmmm )

yep - ours too. Conspiracy theorists may form an orderly queue.

What is a conspiracy called when it becomes reality?:-(

 

[Bill Logan]

connection anyway.

You've got to be careful here. The company may have a big fat pipe to the
Internet, but that pipe might well be shared by thousands or tens of
thousands of users.


And do you have evidence that what "appeals to the wealthy" is lots of
gimcracks?

Jakob Nielsen and others have actually studied Web users by using eye-
tracking equipment. They've discovered a rather interesting thing about a
lot of the visual elements that designers claim make their pages more
exciting and are therefore worth the increased load time: the users' eyes
never land on them. If the user is asked why, the response is usually "I
thought it was an ad."

Just a guess here but I would say the very rich would not be
the sort to take part in surveys and particularly the sort
of test carried out by Nielsen et al. Which of course means
that their findings are totally meaningless when it comes to
them - or even when it comes to the type of web user who
would not take part - even if not rich.