E
Els
Nick said:
It's the confusion with the verb choose.
At least that's what it was in my case.
It's the confusion with the verb choose.
At least that's what it was in my case.
D
...D.
d@no_usenet_email..org says...
Since I am a real novice, I don't know if I need frames. I am only messing it
offline now. (On my new site I used a one-frame "from scratch" index.html).
But the template I am working with, which I have spent hours & hours on
changing a little here & there, has frames. Basically I am using it to see
how to code. Lots of trial & error.
But I really like the way it works. (so far I am having fun). I like the
independent scrolling of largest window or frame, while the other frames
remain in place (3 frames total). MY "index.html" file just launches the
other frames. (and thanks for the discussion, I just put in as a no-frames
out, a simple message, "this website uses frames. if you are seeing this your
browser does not support frames").
OK, the largest frame I'm talking about is designated by me for news &
ramblings (text). It is named start.html. It is not fixed in size (will
stretch to fit browser's screen resolution). This frame sits to the right of
the "menu" frame.
The menu frame (menus.html) is a fixed size "columns=198" frame, (the length
is not fixed, only the width). I am designating it as a navigation frame,
who's job is to display links. Links to other pages of my website, or email
to me, and also links to other websites.
& the 3rd frame doesn't do much at all - a "top" frame, is a very small fixed
sized "rows=48 (length is fixed size only, width stretches to browser). It is
only used for displaying a main <H1> sized title. So while the news &
ramblings frame (window) can scroll underneath it, it (the title) remains
fixed in place at the top.
Like I said, I just like the independent scrolling of the "news & ramblings"
main-sized frame, while the other 2 remain in place.
** OK, now a problem:
Maybe someone knows the answer to this? The only problem I have now, is the
linking of other websites from either the "menus" (left most) frame, or maybe
an occasional click-on-to-go-to reference to a web-page from the news &
ramblings text frame.
---> What happens is that if I click on a website link, that frame
launched-from will fill with the website page. But the other frames remain in
place.
----> Is there any way for me to have it so that when I click on a website
link, it will leave everything behind, and go to the website? Without keeping
the other frames showing?
---> Is this a solution - have the clicked-on link open up a new browser
window, full sized? I know some websites have it so another of my Internet
Explorer windows opens, rather than using the same window. How would I code
that in? (only testing from home so far like I mentioned, but the rules
should be the same, correct?)
Thanks a lot for all of the discussion. I am learning every day.
....D.
Webcastmaker said:
Since I am a real novice, I don't know if I need frames. I am only messing it
offline now. (On my new site I used a one-frame "from scratch" index.html).
But the template I am working with, which I have spent hours & hours on
changing a little here & there, has frames. Basically I am using it to see
how to code. Lots of trial & error.
But I really like the way it works. (so far I am having fun). I like the
independent scrolling of largest window or frame, while the other frames
remain in place (3 frames total). MY "index.html" file just launches the
other frames. (and thanks for the discussion, I just put in as a no-frames
out, a simple message, "this website uses frames. if you are seeing this your
browser does not support frames").
OK, the largest frame I'm talking about is designated by me for news &
ramblings (text). It is named start.html. It is not fixed in size (will
stretch to fit browser's screen resolution). This frame sits to the right of
the "menu" frame.
The menu frame (menus.html) is a fixed size "columns=198" frame, (the length
is not fixed, only the width). I am designating it as a navigation frame,
who's job is to display links. Links to other pages of my website, or email
to me, and also links to other websites.
& the 3rd frame doesn't do much at all - a "top" frame, is a very small fixed
sized "rows=48 (length is fixed size only, width stretches to browser). It is
only used for displaying a main <H1> sized title. So while the news &
ramblings frame (window) can scroll underneath it, it (the title) remains
fixed in place at the top.
Like I said, I just like the independent scrolling of the "news & ramblings"
main-sized frame, while the other 2 remain in place.
** OK, now a problem:
Maybe someone knows the answer to this? The only problem I have now, is the
linking of other websites from either the "menus" (left most) frame, or maybe
an occasional click-on-to-go-to reference to a web-page from the news &
ramblings text frame.
---> What happens is that if I click on a website link, that frame
launched-from will fill with the website page. But the other frames remain in
place.
----> Is there any way for me to have it so that when I click on a website
link, it will leave everything behind, and go to the website? Without keeping
the other frames showing?
---> Is this a solution - have the clicked-on link open up a new browser
window, full sized? I know some websites have it so another of my Internet
Explorer windows opens, rather than using the same window. How would I code
that in? (only testing from home so far like I mentioned, but the rules
should be the same, correct?)
Thanks a lot for all of the discussion. I am learning every day.
....D.
R
rf
....D. said:
No. You do not need frames.
When you become an expert you may come across an occasion where frames may
be usefull, but not now.
W
Webcastmaker
Awesome answer!
A
Adrienne
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Webcastmaker
I know I shouldn't get into this, but...
I have roommates who have picture phones. Apparently, you can put up
different photos, like you would for a desktop background. I don't think
they have Internet access for their phones, but I wouldn't be surprised
if they would use a stock image site, looking for photos to use with
their phones.
I know I shouldn't get into this, but...
I have roommates who have picture phones. Apparently, you can put up
different photos, like you would for a desktop background. I don't think
they have Internet access for their phones, but I wouldn't be surprised
if they would use a stock image site, looking for photos to use with
their phones.
W
Webcastmaker
Of course you should get into this, it is usenet
Photographic stock sites don't have images one would want to download
on a phone. They are usually hi-rez and tend to be multiple megabyte
in size. A smaller image is pretty useless to a photographer.
S
Steve Pugh
Webcastmaker said:
But the _site_ may be very useful at a smaller size.
A creative director is on the train to a meeting with a client in
another city when his PA phones and tells him that the client doesn't
like any of the stock images he's proposed using. He logs onto the
stock site and view the thumbnails on his phone; he can add the images
to the light box facility in his account on that site. When he reaches
the client he can show them a completely new set of stock images by
logging into the stock site on their meeting room computer.
Commonplace? No. Possible? Yes.
And the sort of creative director who does this sort of thing is the
sort of user the site want (think of the amount they'll spend on phone
bills, so how much will he spend on images?)
No matter how you as developer think your users will use your site,
they will always find other ways to use it. It's human nature.
Flexible (define flexible as you will...) sites benefit from this,
inflexible ones don't.
Steve
PS Since the change of handle I haven't seen anything to make me want
to killfile you again. Are you feeling okay?
W
Webcastmaker
Your right, it might, but then again, it might not.
He would get to Chicago 2 hours before the train from Boston.
Sorry, I find making every site on the web accessible by everyone no
matter how they might visit the wrong way to build a site. Each site
must be evaluated individually to decide how the site should look and
feel and work.
We will continue to disagree, so there is no need for us to argue
about it.
S
Steve Pugh
Webcastmaker said:
Okay, bye.
Steve
D
Dave Patton
Yuo don't and you would be best to learn HTML, without
using frames, then learn CSS.
That's good - you'll have more fun in the long run
if you avoid frames, because then you will avoid having
to redo your website once you come to realise what a mistake
it was to have used frames.
One of the classic blunders made by people who use frames.
M
Mark Parnell
You don't. Some light reading:
http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/l_vajzovic/tom/web/frames.html
http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html (see under "Your page uses
frames")
But will your _visitors_ like it?
Join the club.
http://www.google.com/search?q=this...ing+this+your+browser+does+not+support+frames
Good. You got that bit right.
Until you are certain that your site requires frames, you shouldn't even
be considering questions like that.
No. If your visitor wants a new window opened, they can do it themself.
And anyone with a popup blocker won't get the new window anyway.
Yes, isn't it annoying?
S
Sam Hughes
No, you are completely wrong. Only morons look for fancy flash intros and
weird alien menus. Normal people look for airline tickets, bank account
access, and other things. I recently had somebody show me a flash movie.
Was it the intro to some web site? No, it was the movie of Honda's Rube
Goldberg machine commercial. People like flash animations and other
multimedia when they ARE the content, but they could care less otherwise.
Yes, in those cases. Sometimes. The purpose of such web sites is image,
then, not content, by your definition. Thus, if one is making a site for
the purpose of enhancing a company's image, he/she should naturally focus
on design to acheive that purpose. If one is making a site to provide
some utility to a visitor, then he/she should naturally make the content
as accessible as possible.
Believe it or not, people are going to rate their experiences of a
stock-photography web site by the photographs that they download, not by
the site's design, UNLESS, by design, the site is difficult to use.
S
Sam Hughes
It is always amusing to see this sort of message as a blurb underneath a
web site listed in Google.
W
Webcastmaker
You have a very limited view on how people use the web.
D
...D.
Dave Patton said:
Ok.. but why? The only answer that I saw, that I have figured out, is that
for frames, when someone did a Google search or whatever search, that the, is
it the META code thingy (??), might direct them to a frame instead of the
correct starting point (index.html). Well how about just not including the
META at the top of each frame - only in the starting index.html file? You all
seem just say "don't use frames!". What's so bad about frames besides
someone blundering straight into a frame?
I definitely like the look I am seeing with frames, with the main frame, the
largest (for text - news, etc) scrolling independent. My left frame menu
stays put as the text frame is capable of scrolling down. Can I use CCS to
accomplish the same thing? I do not want outside tables to scroll right along
with all.
Yes. Same question as above. Why?
And of course, why is that? "This website uses frames" was already written in
there in the template I started with.
I have been doing HTML for only a couple of weeks. (You can see what I have
accomplished so far if you want to, with a one frame website - mostly links
with pics, at:
http://www.bnt-blacknova.com )
It is just a hobby website. I already am spending time on learning HTML.
Right now trying to learn something new isn't on my agenda. I don't know
enough about HTML yet. I don't want to invest any $$ into something to write
with either, at least not at this point.
....D.
D
...D.
Thanks for the links. i am going to check into them all...
----------------------
....D.
----------------------
....D.
M
Manuel Hegemann
Webcastmaker said:
I think that's a theme you can talk a lot of days about and you'll never
find the one and only answer... everybody is looking for someting else!
i think it depends on the age and interests of the user! if you're
creating a website which is based on gaming you really have to have good
looking design. if you're creating an information based website, the
design only plays the second role!
D
...D.
Mark Parnell said:
Of course my site doesn't require frames. It's just a little hobby website
with basically one purpose (to play a web-based game).. I hate to beat a dead
horse - I like the way an end-user can operate with frames - I just like it,
so I want to be able to use a 3 frames template or have a 3 frames website
(whatever the correct terminology is).
I also want to make it right, or as best I can, as far as search engines &
such. Because I can see already that would be a problem. So I need to find
out what to do to help out as far a labeling a frame (Or not labeling it at
all). or maybe even adding in hidden text that a search engine could see but
not a website user... I don't know yet how to handle this. There is no hurry
though.
Well no, not confusing. It happens a lot. But now you have me confused. I
have a very good pop-up blocker, but there are several websites I go to that
open up a full screen Internet Explorer window (same size as when log into IE
for my home site when 2st logging in) when clicking on a link. It happens so
often in fact (new window) that it doesn't bother me one bit - I am very used
to what to do if I want to close the launched-from window. And more times
than not it is more convenient - I want to return to the launch site
eventually, and it is quicker & better that way - much better, because I might
surf a little from the new window, but still want to return to the original
launch site, in which case I just close the new window, or just click on the
launched-from window thingy in the IE start bar.. And yes, my popup blocker
does stop little pop-up windows from opening often, but not a full-screen IE
window. (several websites that have JPG wallpaper, for example, also open up
a separate IE window each time I click on a thumbnail to download a pic. Then
after, I just close the window & am back to the previous page).
BTW, maybe someone posted it, but so far no one has told me how to code a
link-launch to open a new IE window instead of using the same window... (??)
....D.
W
Webcastmaker
manuel- said:
The web is a very big place to play. You can not dictate what
someone may or may not like. It is completely dependant on who you
are trying to reach and what you are trying to do with your site.
A site that directly sells something should be treated differently
than a site that offers information, or a site that offers
entertainment. Each site is unique.
Ah, my mantra...
D
...D.
But I really like the way it works. (so far I am having fun). I like the
I am trying to get to the point to join your little "club" here. Why not
explain why you find it "always amusing".
Doesn't it help a google searcher not go to that URL, as it should? I mean
really, my modest website would not be of any use at all to anyone who wasn't
on a regular computer anyway. It's basic purpose is to play a couple of
web-based games, and news & links about that (eventually not exclusively) -
many game-play webpage changes, every day play. (using php files, in color,
if that means anything). A mobile device or other isn't going to use my site
anyway. So I wouldn't care about, what little % of users (??) don't have the
technology to use such a website. If they don't have a regular computer
running a normal Internet interface, what good are they, even if I sold stuff
or something? Question - does IE, Netscape, and Mozilla support frames?
IE = how many % of users?
-------------->> However, if I cannot code in any launching of links to other
websites to open a new IE window, or I cannot code a webpage based game to
launch a full-screen window and not inside of one of the frames (same thing as
laucning another website, as the address is different), someone please tell me
now. It would be so simple to, which no one has done, and I will abandon the
idea.
....D.
Sam Hughes said:
I am trying to get to the point to join your little "club" here. Why not
explain why you find it "always amusing".
Doesn't it help a google searcher not go to that URL, as it should? I mean
really, my modest website would not be of any use at all to anyone who wasn't
on a regular computer anyway. It's basic purpose is to play a couple of
web-based games, and news & links about that (eventually not exclusively) -
many game-play webpage changes, every day play. (using php files, in color,
if that means anything). A mobile device or other isn't going to use my site
anyway. So I wouldn't care about, what little % of users (??) don't have the
technology to use such a website. If they don't have a regular computer
running a normal Internet interface, what good are they, even if I sold stuff
or something? Question - does IE, Netscape, and Mozilla support frames?
IE = how many % of users?
-------------->> However, if I cannot code in any launching of links to other
websites to open a new IE window, or I cannot code a webpage based game to
launch a full-screen window and not inside of one of the frames (same thing as
laucning another website, as the address is different), someone please tell me
now. It would be so simple to, which no one has done, and I will abandon the
idea.
....D.