B
Bill Cunningham
I just purchased a book used called "C Unleashed" By RJH and was
wondering if it's our own strangely placed Heathfield?
Bill
wondering if it's our own strangely placed Heathfield?
Bill
M
Martin Ambuhl
Bill said:
Yes, our own RJH is an author of _C Unleashed_.
B
Ben Pfaff
Bill Cunningham said:
Yes, and many of the other authors are or were regulars here in
c.l.c.
A
August Derleth
So, I assume it's worth buying?
R
Randy Howard
If you are big enough to carry it, yes.
O
Old Wolf
Martin Ambuhl said:
When he isn't on MI6 missions, presumably.
D
Dan Pop
R
Richard Bos
August Derleth said:
Well... I found it useful.
Richard
A
Allin Cottrell
Dan said:
I'm slightly surprised that Dan should cite this review of "C
Unleashed". The review is quite critical, which in itself is OK,
of course, but the specific grounds for criticism are not, I
would have thought, such as to commend themselves to clc
participants in general, nor to Dan Pop in particular.
To wit:
a) The reviewer (Francis Glassborrow) takes the authors of "C
Unleashed" to task for not making more of the existence of the 'new'
(1999) C standard. Dan has been very critical of this standard and
(rightly, in my opinion) regards it as pretty much irrelevant so long
as it is unsupported by the major C compilers.
b) The reviewer's other main complaint is that the authors continue
to recommend C for a range of tasks that, in the reviewer's opinion,
are better handled with C++ or other languages. Opinions differ on
this question, of course, but clc participants are likely to take a
broader view of the domain of effectivess of C than does
Glassborrow.
Allin Cottrell
D
Dan Pop
In said:
I don't have to be in perfect agreement with a review in order to
recommend it. I agree, however, with most points made by the reviewer
and the general conclusion, otherwise I wouldn't have recommended it
in the first place.
IMHO, this book is a solution in search of a problem. If someone wants
a tutorial C text, K&R2 is a (much) better choice. For a book about
algorithms with C examples, Sedgewick is a (much) better choice. For
a book about actually writing real life C code, Plauger's "The Standard C
Library" is a (much) better choice. Again, IMHO.
Dan
S
Servé La
Dan Pop said:
C Unleashed fits in perfectly. It's more intended for people that have
already chosen C and want expand their skills in some areas. It's not trying
to teach C, or the standard library.
D
Dan Pop
In said:
Are you sure you know what "The Standard C Library" is about?
Dan
A
Allin Cottrell
Dan said:
"P.J. Plauger, The Standard C Library (Englewood Cliffs NJ: Prentice
Hall, 1992). Contains a complete implementation of the Standard C
library, as well as text from the library portion of the C Standard
and guidance in using the Standard C library."
(http://www-ccs.ucsd.edu/c/crit_pb.html)
I suppose it's the "complete implementation" part you're stressing here.
I don't really see that as directly competitive with "C Unleashed".
For example, I have learned useful things from the chapters in the
latter dealing with CGI and linear algebra.
Allin Cottrell
D
Dan Pop
In said:
Isn't it *obvious* from my own words, underlined above?
Isn't "C Unleashed" supposed to show you how to write real life C code?
My point is that TSCL is (much) better suited for this purpose.
Have I ever claimed that there is nothing useful to be learned from
"C Unleashed"? One can learn useful things even from Schildt's books,
so this doesn't strike me as a particularly relevant argument.
Dan
A
Allin Cottrell
Dan said:
Well, that's nice: seem to offer some slight placation, then snatch
it right back.
I have no vested interest in C Unleashed; it just strikes me that it
offers many good examples of programming in "the clc style", and that
your citation of Glassborow's dismissive review was disingenuous,
given that his criticisms were based on a parti pris in favour of
the C99 standard and C++ (as against C89, which is both the lingua
franca of open source and clc, and -- to all appearances -- your
own preference in programming languages).
Anyway, I have said my piece on this topic.
Allin Cottrell.
D
Dan Pop
In said:
Since you insist in this bogus argument, I'll quote the parts of that
review that have nothing to do with Glassborow's preference for C99 and
C++.
On the other side some of the co-authors seem to have a limited
perspective. The chapter on dealing with dates is a case in
point. Those of us familiar with the problem know that it is one
of the most fearsomely difficult problems around. The C library
facilities are flawed, and the standards committees backed off from
replacing them because they were unsure that they could do the job
right in the time available. They knew enough to know that getting
it right is far from easy. Unfortunately the author of the chapter
on this topic seems to focus on trivialising it. I suppose this is
a consequence of having a multi-author book. The level of assumed
reader expertise varies wildly from chapter to chapter.
Up until now I have been very negative about this book, but that
is not entirely fair. If you are a determinedly C programmer, or
there is some reason why you must use C regardless as to whether
something else might be better for the problem, then this is a good
book to have. If you want to study high quality C, or you want to
become a master C programmer this would be an excellent book to
add to your shelf. Between its covers you will find a multitude
of well-considered and carefully honed examples of C. If we limit
ourselves to a programming world dominated by the C enshrined in
the 1990 version of ISO C (and I do wish the authors would remember
that that is what we should call it.) then this is a first rate
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
book. However, if you look outside that narrow community you would
^^^^
want to spend your time studying something else.
As you can see, Glassborow has a much better opinion about this book than
myself, yet I was fair enough to recommend his review instead of
presenting my opinions...
Dan