J
John Henry
Dan said:
I assume you meant that the example programs looks LabView-like GUIs?
PythonCard itself has nothing in common with LabView. It's more like
HyperCard.
I assume you meant that the example programs looks LabView-like GUIs?
PythonCard itself has nothing in common with LabView. It's more like
HyperCard.
J
John Salerno
Michael said:
I agree. I was expecting something more technical to justify the colon,
not just that it looks better.
D
Dan Lenski
John said:
That's right, I'm saying the GUIs *produced* by PythonCard look like
those produced by LabView. Believe me, if the PythonCard programming
style had anything to do with LabView, I'd avoid it like the plague =)
In any case, I think I'm gonna give PythonCard a shot before trying
full-fledged wxPython. It looks ideal for my needs.
Dan
N
Neil Cerutti
I think it is outstanding that the colon's justification is
asthetic rather than technical (though I too had expected to see
a technical excuse for it).
T
Tim Chase
Anyway, the FAQ answer seems to be a weak argument to me.
Though by such justifications based on asthetics, the interpreter
should also enforce that class-names begin with capital letters,
that camel-case is eschewed in favor of underscore_separation.
And perhaps enforce a 79-column character limit on text. Perhaps
also put a cap on the number of punctuation characters on a given
line as well to prevent the code from looking too much like
Perl... ;*)
A few arbitrary warts per-dictum of BDFL are fine though...it
still looks much cleaner compared to PHP & Perl ;-)
Shaving-with-Occam's-disposable-razor'ly yers...
-tkc
Though by such justifications based on asthetics, the interpreter
should also enforce that class-names begin with capital letters,
that camel-case is eschewed in favor of underscore_separation.
And perhaps enforce a 79-column character limit on text. Perhaps
also put a cap on the number of punctuation characters on a given
line as well to prevent the code from looking too much like
Perl... ;*)
A few arbitrary warts per-dictum of BDFL are fine though...it
still looks much cleaner compared to PHP & Perl ;-)
Shaving-with-Occam's-disposable-razor'ly yers...
-tkc
S
sjdevnull
Steve said:
FWIW, Firefox 2.0 and 1.5.0.7 both work properly on this link (as does
Epiphany 1.2.10). Linux 2.6-based system.
S
Steve Holden
You may find that it starts out fine, but becomes less satisfactory asDan said:
the sophistication of your interfaces increases. Then the problem will
be that migration to another platform demands a substantial rewrite of
your application (I have done this for a fairly small app).
I don't think PythonCard gets much maintenance nowadays.
regards
Steve
D
Dan Lenski
Wojciech said:
Tk 8.4 appears to use native Win32 widgets under Cygwin and native
WinXP. But it definitely doesn't use GTK widgets under Ubuntu with
Gnome desktop. Is there a way to get it to do so?
Dan
B
Bjoern Schliessmann
Dan said:
Why not?
BTW, big projects such as the Opera browser use Qt. Also in Windows.
Regards,
Björn
B
Bjoern Schliessmann
Michael said:
What about
if color == red or blue or green:
return 'primary'
Really, I think it'd be more mess to let the if statement's end only
depend on ":". I think there could arise situations that are messy
to debug. If I need multiple lines I prefer the parentheses.
Regards,
Björn
J
John Henry
Steve said:
It all depends on what you need. You can always "drop down" to calling
wxPython.
Funny you mention that. I started that discussion on the PythonCard
list only yesterday.
While it's true that the web pages hasn't been updated to follow up
with the developments, I am delighted to learn that there has been
quite a bit of work going on.
Again, it all depends on what your needs are. If you need to become
productive in a hurry, and you are not exactly chasing after the
latest widget, my recommendation is to go with PythonCard.
R
Robert Kern
Tim said:
Well, it's neither arbitrary nor simply the preference of the BFDL. The ABC
project actually did empirical experiments with programmers to find that code
comprehension improved by adding the colon.
Here's a post from Uncle Timmy mentioning it:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp...+ABC+colon+experiment&rnum=2#8d568e684d653003
Unfortunately, my Google-fu has not located an actual paper. It might be in here
somewhere:
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/abc/publications.html
--
Robert Kern
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth."
-- Umberto Eco
D
Dan Lenski
One other thing I'm wondering: how exactly does Tkinter work? Is the
whole Tk toolkit bound up as library of low-level C code, or does
Tkinter sit on top of a Tcl interpreter?
If the latter, that might explain why it is frustratingly slow on
Cygwin... since Cygwin is not very good at starting up new processes in
a timely manner.
Dan
whole Tk toolkit bound up as library of low-level C code, or does
Tkinter sit on top of a Tcl interpreter?
If the latter, that might explain why it is frustratingly slow on
Cygwin... since Cygwin is not very good at starting up new processes in
a timely manner.
Dan
B
Ben Finney
Please don't hide your new thread as a reply to an existing, unrelated
message. Start a new message if your message isn't actually a reply.
But it can't be dropped from this statement:
if self.hungry: self.eat()
Why have two different syntaxes for the same statement?
A use case. What problem is being solved by introducing this
inconsistency?
message. Start a new message if your message isn't actually a reply.
Michael Hobbs said:
But it can't be dropped from this statement:
if self.hungry: self.eat()
Why have two different syntaxes for the same statement?
A use case. What problem is being solved by introducing this
inconsistency?
D
Dan Lenski
Ben said:
I agree completely. And as a recent convert to Python, I have to say
that I *like* the colons. I found the whitespace-and-colon thing
really irritating... for about 2 hours.
The colon makes it easier to eyeball where a block statement begins in
the absence of braces around the block, it allows one-line if
statements (which I use a lot), and it means that even the stupidest,
simplest editor can figure out where auto-indentation is needed, namely
following any line that ends with a colon (except in a triple-quoted, I
guess).
Contrast that with Perl, where in years of professional and hobby use I
have not found a single editor that gets indentation right more than
about 90% of the time. The syntax is too darn complicated. With
Python, figuring out where to auto-indent is trivial. Works for me.
Dan
B
Bill Maxwell
I took a brief look at PythonCard almost a year ago and got discouraged
by what I found, so I stopped looking at it. I've inserted my notes
from back then, below. Does anybody know if these things have been
fixed in the latest release?
Bill
=====================================================================
My notes from Fri Dec-23-2005:
This is a list of gripes I have while trying to learn about PythonCard.
I'm trying to investigate various GUI builders for Python, and
PythonCard looks promising, but a lot of things are getting in the way.
I installed yesterday, using this installer:
PythonCard-0.8.1.FIXED.win32.exe
A) The very first example in the tutorial is wrong!
On this page: http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/documentation.html
When you follow this link to try something for the very first time:
Getting Started in PythonCard by Dan Shafer:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/walkthrough1.html
You quickly see that the minimal.py example doesn't even contain
this line, even though the tutorial refers to it:
def on_menuFileAbout_select(self, event):
And, of course, if you replace the word "pass" with this, as
instructed:
result = dialog.alertDialog(self, 'It works!', 'Showing Off')
it won't run, because the existing "pass" line isn't inside a def
inside of a class.
B) Is the Notebook widget really supported?
In the installed file "changelog.txt" (gets installed as part of
PythonCard installation), it says:
"added Notebook component, PageBackground, and testNotebook
sample"
But, the testNotebook sample is nowhere to be found.
I looked lots of places, including the main SourceForge web site,
and on the wiki, here:
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/PythonCard
Both the main website and the wiki seem way out of date, and the
latest dates I could find on both of them are sometime in 2004.
Finally, by following the mailing list archive link on the main
website, I managed to find a reference to the notebook component on the
ASPN site, where some guy named Brian wonders about the same thing as
me, concerning the availability of the notebook component:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/pythoncard/2536825
and, that message led me here:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.pythoncard/1060
where Kevin Altis admits that he forgot to include it in the 0.8.1
release! At least he provides a way to download it separately. But,
gheesh, this is pretty poor for a new user. I was interested in using
the notebook component right away, because I looked at the wxGlade
tutorial before looking at PythonPage, and they use the notebook
component in their example (and I decided I really want to use the
component).
To add insult to injury, after you download the zip file with the
testNotebook stuff, the readme file says this:
"Until we have a Notebook integrated into some of the other
samples or tools this will serve as a basic test app, but I don't expect
to include it in releases."
C) Are the websites being maintained?
J
John Henry
Bill said:
I am not sure which one you are referring to but in the
PythonCard\samples\minimal, you will find a minimal.py that says:
#!/usr/bin/python
"""
__version__ = "$Revision: 1.8 $"
__date__ = "$Date: 2005/12/17 15:20:02 $"
"""
from PythonCard import model
class Minimal(model.Background):
def on_menuFileAbout_select(self, event):
pass
if __name__ == '__main__':
app = model.Application(Minimal)
app.MainLoop()
No, it didn't work because the author forgot to mention that you have
to do a:
from PythonCard import model, dialog
instead of just:
from PythonCard import model
I just tried it and it works.
I haven't come across a need to use Notebook and so I can not say for
sure. Looking at notebook.py, it appears to be just a simple wrapper
on top of the wxWindow notebook. I would encourage you to post a
message to the mailing list and ask there.
Yes, sometime around 2004, the website updating stopped. Fortunately,
development didn't. There are quite a number of new things since then:
new resource editor (now call layout Editor, standalone exe creator,
and so forth). I even learn that a new sizer handler is in the work.
Not saying that there are 10 programmers working 7/24 on it. It *is*
an Open Source project nevertheless. Nobody gets paid for doing it.
But there are development work going on.
As with all Open Source projects, your mileage differs. PythonCard
does what *I* need to get done - and allowed me to get it done in a
*hurry*. May be you really need Notebook and may be it's true that
Notebook really doesn't work, I don't know. But if you managed to get
it working, write it up and get it included. That's what Open Source
Projects are all about.
It appears that the maintainer of the web site stopped updating it
since late 2004. I don't know why. May be he's been busy. May be he
got mad. I don't know. All I know is that I have been very
productive with what I need to get done (and earned a happy living with
the code I created) and I am very grateful to the people that worked on
it - past and present.
I am not a "professional programmer" and so I probably can't contribute
to the development effort itself. However, I've gotten pretty good in
using most of the package (other then Notebook, I admit). So, if you
have any specific questions, please post it to the PythonCard list and
I'll try to help if I can.
Cheers.
J
John Henry
Upon closer look, the walkthrough did say:
***************************
from PythonCard import model
Change that so it says:
from PythonCard import dialog, model
Save the code.
***************************
So, it works.
***************************
from PythonCard import model
Change that so it says:
from PythonCard import dialog, model
Save the code.
***************************
So, it works.
D
Dennis Lee Bieber
Or line continuation in REXX... Where you get such oddities as:
call xyz(a, b, c, ,
d, e, f)
That is NOT a NULL argument between c and d... The first comma is the
argument separator, the second comma is the to-be-continued marker
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
(e-mail address removed) (e-mail address removed)
HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
(Bestiaria Support Staff: (e-mail address removed))
HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/
E
Eric Brunel
The latter: there is a tiny C layer allowing Python to call an embedded
tcl interpreter.
There is no other process involved: the interpreter is embedded, just as a
Python interpreter can be embedded in a C application. If you want to work
with Tkinter on Windows, you'd better avoid Cygwin. Python with Tkinter
works just fine on Windows, just as it works on any other platform, and is
fully portable, just as tcl/tk is.
HTH