T
Twisted
Attempted invasion of another user's privacy is certainly, at minimum,
a violation of his provider's Terms of Service. If it progresses to
offline stalking or harassment then yes, he's violated the law.
Attempted invasion of another user's privacy is certainly, at minimum,
a violation of his provider's Terms of Service. If it progresses to
offline stalking or harassment then yes, he's violated the law.
J
Joe Attardi
Twisted said:
Revealing someone's name is hardly an invasion of privacy, especially
when he cites sources ON THE INTERNET. If it's on the Internet, it's
public knowledge. No invasion of privacy.
FAIL.
J
Joe Attardi
Nope. My Gmail's been fine. Sorry, you fail!Twisted said:
Why do I have to prove anything to you anyway? If you want to believe
that you managed to knock out my Gmail account for any (nonexistent)
period of time, you can do that. But I can assure you no such
knocking-out occurred. Not so much as a warning. Because your ridiculous
claims have no merit.
Hunting you down? The guy said what your name is. That's an awful
stretch, even for you.
T
Twisted
It is if they are choosing to be anonymous online. Of course, it also
technically is only if they actually manage to get it right, which
Jack T didn't.
Vaguely referring to having "seen it elsewhere on the net" is hardly
citing sources.
[insults deleted]
I will defend my right to anonymity and you cannot stop me by force or
convince me not to.
J
Joe Attardi
Twisted said:
Riddle me this, then. How was I able to post to two mailing lists?
http://sourceforge.net/search/?ml_n...lists&group_id=23523&[email protected]
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/[email protected]&search_type=AND
Again, fail.
J
Joe Attardi
If you wanted anonymity, you should've gone through an anonymizing webTwisted said:
proxy. Otherwise, stop crying about it.
O
Owen Jacobson
Plenty of reasons. Someone keeping up on their skills in the face of
new java releases might be perusing java blogs and usenet posts.
Someone might have encountered one of the ways manipulating Swing
objects from outside the EDT can cause problems and be wondering why.
Someone might be having, well, this exact conversation and wondering
if more information was available somewhere.
Well, several Java revisions have come out since you started posting
here. For any random API it's likely at least one of those updates
changed something in it.
Programming, for better or for worse, doesn't happen in a vacuum. The
"best" way to do something may or may not be the way you or I or
anyone else did it last year, and today's "best practice" may be
superceded by something better (simpler, faster, easier to debug, or
more flexible) in the future. A five- or ten-minute docs refresher on
the tool at hand often pays off in the long run.
Ironically, Java 5 *did* update Collections. People who picked one
way and stuck with it back in Java 1.2 or 1.4 and stuck with it may
have been rudely surprised when their newly-updated compiler started
emitting warnings they'd never heard of before.
It's the developer's responsibility to check which parts of the API
changed when a new version of Java is released -- Sun publishes that
information in the form of release notes and changelogs.
You're right. They dropped the ball by forgetting to mention what
amounts to a documentation clarification in the release notes. Given
Sun's history of only including the highlights in the release notes
proper, though, it's fairly wise to check API docs for features are
mentioned in the notes after a release to see if anything else has
changed. The package docs are part of the documentation, no matter
how rarely you personally refer to them.
Would it help if future posts used fully-qualified names or had import
statements?
N
nebulous99
The implied threat is obvious.
Of course, the fact that he got it wrong means I might not really have
much to worry about. It might take him years to guess my real name,
and a while longer to figure out my street address from that. At that
point, judging by what evidence we have thus far for his abilities and
competencies, he'll get lost and wind up in the deep northwestern
woods being chased by angry bears, several hundreds of KM away from my
home. And then he'll attempt in desperation to fight off the bears
with his knife only to be holding it handle-outward. Then get eaten,
then die. In that order.
N
nebulous99
[snip insults]
Go to hell.
Go to hell.
J
Joe Attardi
There was no farking implied threat. Unless typing someone's name and
ISP is an implied threat now, in which case you have implicitly
threatened me!!!!!!!!!Oh noes!!!
D
Dag Sunde
Joe said:
No, no!
Don't stop!
This is getting so hilariously funny that I really want it to go on.
I've never seen such a paranoid nut-case at Twisted/nebulous99 during
all my years on Usenet.
And the best thing is that it is a multi-threaded comedy running in
several threads in several Newsgroups.
Keep it coming. :-D
This was probably very insulting, Twisted. So I will spare you the
trouble og looking up my real name/ISP:
My real name is Dag Sunde, and I live in Arendal, Norway.
My ISP is Song Networks, Oslo, Norway.
I have "insulted" you before on several occations, so now I can't
wait for you to report me, and get my internet connection terminated.
J
Joe Attardi
See! Finally, someone else who understands why I just can't stop replying!!Dag said:
Although, once the majority of posters in this group wake up in a few
hours, they are going to be so pissed at all the flaming that's been
going on!
Sorry guys!
N
nebulous99
In other words, you admit that the first warning anyone had of the
change might have been their being viciously attacked in the newsgroup
for not having apparently known about it.
In other words, you admit that the notification system is horribly
broken, and worse people are horribly rude and unforgiving of people
being out of date despite that.
If the first sign someone has that something like this has changed is
being flamed on usenet then something is very wrong, both with the
usenet flamer AND with Sun's change documentation policies.
And for the most part those changes are either evident from the method
signatures or are "under the hood" changes and in either case,
upwardly compatible so that existing practises are not suddenly
grounds for being flamed.
And usually when they change something like this there's a method that
gets deprecated. In this case, calling some method from off the EDT is
apparently now deprecated but the method itself isn't.
Admittedly, this is a corner case where the javadocs are ill-suited to
provide the alert. Another reason why deprecating that pattern of
usage should have been featured prominently in a change log somewhere,
rather than buried in changes to package.html text nobody but newbies
reads, changes to tutorials non-newbies no longer routinely consult,
and a blog only a fraction of the target audience even knows exists.
Not to mention that a lot of people have the tutorials mirrored
locally and those copies won't have updated at all.
No problem, except that there are two niggling issues.
1. If such a change occurs, some sort of alert has to occur. I'm not
going to check the docs every single day to see if something I use
routinely has changed! Nor the tutorials. If something like that
should be reread, then something should prompt everyone to whom it's
relevant to reread it. An announcement in this newsgroup could have
that effect, or a release note with a new version could prominently
mention the change in question.
2. If such a change occurs in a fairly quiet and poorly-documented
manner it is woefully inappropriate to respond to someone's not
knowing about it by blasting them with both barrels!
Did they get flamed on the newsgroup? No. Did the documentation,
tools, etc. alert them? Yes. Apples and oranges.
I don't recall deprecating showing frames from off the EDT being
mentioned in any of these for either Java 5 or Java 6. If it was it
was not prominently mentioned, despite the fact that nothing in the
API docs or tool behavior would call attention to the change.
I'd call deprecating a formerly common practise in 75+%* of Java
projects, and recommending a new one in its place, more than a
"documentation clarification".
* Totally off-the-cuff estimate. I assume standalone GUI apps are all
affected, and that applets and console apps and the like comprise
roughly a quarter of projects. Given the amount of attention
Enterprise stuff is getting, it may be that applets and servlets are
much more common now than in the past, but standalone GUI apps are
still going to be a substantial chunk of all projects, simply because
they're a substantial chunk of all programming *in general*. They're
also disproportionately represented if you count lines of code rather
than identifiably separate projects.
Regardless, though, my main objection isn't to the change itself, or
even to Sun's relatively quiet non-announcement of it, but to the
manner in which it was brought to my attention: extremely rudely.
There was no cause for publicly belittling me and making it look as if
I were some kind of fool or know-nothing for not being aware of this
admittedly rather soft-pedaled and peculiar change.
N
nebulous99
You can shove your anonymizing Web proxy up your arse -- I shouldn't
have to resort to such exotic methods just to be safe from pissant
little wannabe stalkers like Jack T!
N
nebulous99
Or at least something they think is someone's name...
You're so smart? How about you tell me exactly what innocuous reasons
he might have for prying into such matters and trying to find out my
real name, given that I go to some effort to disconnect my online life
from my real life?
Let me guess: you can easily think up numerous nefarious reasons for
such behavior but zero innocuous ones.
I trust I've made my point. Besides being off-topic here, speculation
as to any given poster's real offline name can serve no useful,
constructive function, but is obviously useful if you wish to
perpetrate or simply to incite offline harassment of some form.
N
nebulous99
[unprovoked attack post]
The various negative things about me that this imbe...vidual implied
and stated are false.
Eh? Is someone from here badmouthing me in another newsgroup to try to
do it behind my back?
The various negative things about me that this imbe...vidual implied
and stated are false.
Eh? Is someone from here badmouthing me in another newsgroup to try to
do it behind my back?
D
Dag Sunde
Because you say so?
LOL
I every newsgroup you post, my little twisted friend. ;-)
N
nebulous99
And the insults are true just because *you* say so? Even though I'm
clearly a more knowledgeable person on the subject of me than you are?
Not according to my various checks. Most of them are quiet. The only
one in which I've recently been flamed is this one. And I'd much
rather it stayed that way; if you go intentionally posting OT
insulting posts in other newsgroups just to spread the conflagration
your conduct WILL be reported to your internet provider.
O
Owen Jacobson
All of these assertions hinge on there being a change. In fact, the
"old way" of creating and displaying some or all of the initial UI
from the main thread *never* worked reliably. I gather that Sun's
first goal was to ship a replacement for AWT as soon as possible and
second to fix any niggling "issues" like thread safety. Sun's
developers subsequently discovered, quite likely as the result of bug
reports from users in the field, that Swing's API was structured in a
way that made it impossible to make both thread-safe and performant.
The potential for application bugs was always there, but was not
always known. The only code change that introduced it was the one in
which Swing's event model came into being.
(I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth, if you please. I
believe the flaming and viciousness you're receiving at the hands of
others here has nothing whatsoever to do with Swing.)
Sun is not and will never be the only source of information about bugs
and changes in Java. Indeed, very soon others will be able to compare
release tags of the JDK themselves for a blood-and-guts-level view of
the changes from release to release and publish their findings
anywhere they choose. Given that, and given that it's likely the
problems with initializing Swing components on the main thread were
discovered by users and not created or discovered by Sun, I hardly
expect them to generate an alert. They may as well generate an alert
every time a user discovers a flaw in the JVM, JRE, or JDK.
(Well, they do; you can watch the bug tracker yourself if you want
that much detail and want to be sure you miss nothing. Otherwise,
you'll have to content yourself with the level of detail provided by
whoever refines that raw bug and task information down to release
notes.)
Regardless of how well or poorly Sun propagated information about
Swing components being thread-unsafe, there are other sources of
information out there on the web. My own observation is that the
thread-safety issues with Swing because widely known sometime around
Java 5's release, if not slightly after; prior to that I'm sure a
handful of websites mentioned it and more than a few developers within
and without Sun had encountered it. At this point information about
Swing and threading is widely available on the internet at large.
Before you ask your usual next question, yes, I do expect you or any
other software developer to keep an eye on what "the internet at
large" is learning about the tools you or they use, since I do it
myself as a way of keeping my skills from rusting. Certainly not
everything, but if someone mentions a bit of information I wasn't
aware of it's up to me to search around and see what I can learn from
that.
This is important enough that I'll say it again: there was no change
to Swing. Manipulating Swing components from main has *never* been
safe. Sun believed it to be safe when they released Swing and the
original Swing tutorials; they were wrong. Are there other, similar
bugs in the JDK somewhere? Probably.
The problems in Swing's specific case are not the sort that leap out
at you; as you've already discovered, it's possible to do main-thread
component initialization and have it work. As with most threading
bugs, it's sensitive to load, the exact thread execution timing, and
many other factors, so number of states where Swing components do
something unexpected is fairly small compared to the number of states
where Swing components act as expected. This is why the bug initially
escaped detection.
Reading back over this thread, I don't find the way the bug in your
code was brought to your attention particularly vicious. It wasn't
particularly polite, but this is a technical newsgroup and extremely
blunt and direct phrases like "you shouldn't show a JDialog off the
EDT" are par for the course, not an act of hostility.
Clearly, you disagree, as is your prerogative. I wish you luck in
finding a forum where technical people of or above the calibre found
here are plentiful and as polite as geishas, as I doubt you'll ever
find that in the usenet comp.lang.* hierarchy.
B
blmblm
There might be an honest misunderstanding here:
When I do a Google search on "swing", "event", "dispatch", and
"thread", the first hit is indeed the one Owen mentions.
Results are different if I search on "swing even dispatch thread"
(single quoted term).
[ snip ]