What should i start off with

[Peter Manning]

Hi,

I thought I was going to learn using Ruby On Rails, but it seems like
its the wrong tool for me. It seems like Ruby On Rails is for people who
wants to create quick website-applications and genrally 'website-stuff'.
What I want to do is to make _real_ programs. By that I mean things like
editors, browsers, Calculatores, drawing programs, etc. So therefore my
question is: What should I start learning?

I think i should inform you that I already know programming _very_ small
console programs in Ruby (I have made a calculator, and a very basic
editor). I started off 2 weeks ago and im an earlier PHP-programmer so
im not 'new in business'.

I have looked on Gtk and Tk because it seems like thats the tool i need
to create 'real' programs. The problem is that i dont really like either
of them. Is there any other modern option insted of the 'old school
tools'?

Thanks!

 

[Devin Mullins]

The names for 'real' programs varies, but I think you'll generally get
by with a term such as 'windowed applications.' Terms such as 'thick'
and 'GUI' are also used, but could probably lead to some ambiguity.

To get you started:
http://wiki.rubygarden.org/Ruby/page/show/ComparingGuiToolkits/TakeTwo
(Note it's 2 years old, so apply salt as necessary.)

Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.

Devin

 

[Peter Manning]

The names for 'real' programs varies, but I think you'll generally get
by with a term such as 'windowed applications.' Terms such as 'thick'
and 'GUI' are also used, but could probably lead to some ambiguity.

To get you started:
http://wiki.rubygarden.org/Ruby/page/show/ComparingGuiToolkits/TakeTwo
(Note it's 2 years old, so apply salt as necessary.)

Thank you very much, I will read it as soon as possible (Its 04:45 in
Denmark right now - And im tired )

Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.

Devin

Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
useless unless your a windows guy. I want something that works
cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).

A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?
Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
is still many lines you have to write before something happends when you
use GUI tools.
- alright, i have an other tiny question: Can _you_ suggest any GUI
tools, that are up-to-date that you have tried?

 

[Mat Schaffer]

A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?
Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
is still many lines you have to write before something happends
when you
use GUI tools.

If you're interested in RoR's data handling features, you might want
to consider using activerecord with sqlite in the context of a GUI
application. You can also use activesupport from rails to get some
of the neat features like '3.days.ago'. Or even use the whole rails
stack. I've been doing this for CLI applications for awhile.
Although it takes a bit of time to load the rails environment, it's
often worth the added functionality.
-Mat

 

[matt]

www.wxwidgets.org

They have GUI bindings in a number of languages (including Ruby)

So if you like Ruby, and want to develop "real" applications, that is an
excellent way to go.

Matt

 

[Tony Muler]

Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
useless unless your a windows guy. I want something that works
cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).

Correct me if I mis-interpret what you are writing,
but if you want to make it cross-browser this means
that you are still talking about web applications
while your initial post looked more like you want
to build standalone applications / fat clients.

I do not have so much experience with RoR, but
what is wrong about it, especially when making use
of AJAX for enriching your "real programmes".

 

[vasudevram]

www.wxwidgets.org

They have GUI bindings in a number of languages (including Ruby)

So if you like Ruby, and want to develop "real" applications, that is an
excellent way to go.

Matt

Qt is another very good GUI toolkit. You can use it directly from C++
or use it from Python with PyQt. Its now open source as well as
commercial (a paid license) on both Windows and Linux, if I remember -
this was with the release of Qt 4. Good if you want to develop
cross-platform GUI apps in C++. Paid version is expensive for an
individual developer, though.

Vasudev Ram
www.dancingbison.com

 

[Kalman Noel]

Peter Manning:

Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
useless unless your a windows guy.

Note that Gtk and Tk are not related in any way to MS products.

I want something that works
cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).

I'm confused. Are you interested in programming for the web/for browser
use, or in programming with a GUI toolkit?

Kalman

 

[richard.j.dale]

Qt is another very good GUI toolkit. You can use it directly from C++
or use it from Python with PyQt. Its now open source as well as
commercial (a paid license) on both Windows and Linux, if I remember -
this was with the release of Qt 4. Good if you want to develop
cross-platform GUI apps in C++. Paid version is expensive for an
individual developer, though.

Well of course you can use QtRuby with Qt3 or Qt4, as well as PyQt

-- Richard

 

[Alex Fenton]

A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?

WxSugar is one such library, to make programming with wxRuby easier and less repetitive.

http://wxruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?WxSugar

It would probably not be too hard to write something similar for the other toolkits, if they don't have it already.

Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
is still many lines you have to write before something happends when you
use GUI tools.

WxSugar's goal is expressiveness rather than terseness, but applications written with it typically have 20-40% fewer lines than vanilla wxRuby.

Since the other poster didn't mention it, I should say that wxRuby is not quite ready for production use. It's pretty complete in coverage of the wxWidgets GUI API, but there are a few memory management bugs remaining. On windows, you may wish to temporarily add 'GC.disable' to the top of your scripts. I'd hope to see a stable beta in the next month or so.

alex