Career Decision

[Shenked]

I am interested in beginning a career in this field. Does anyone have
some helpful hints or suggestions for a junior programmer?

 

[Wiseguy]

I am interested in beginning a career in this field. Does anyone have
some helpful hints or suggestions for a junior programmer?

Dont...Unless you live in India and will work for $0.50US/hr.
The market is flooded, the quality of code is at an all time low, and
noone is interested in quality anymore, just cost...

 

[Lisa]

I am interested in beginning a career in this field. Does anyone have
some helpful hints or suggestions for a junior programmer?

Ah.... "THIS" so you are a dynamic sort of guy..., not static I mean.

 

[Oscar kind]

I am interested in beginning a career in this field. Does anyone have
some helpful hints or suggestions for a junior programmer?

That depends on your location. I happen to know a little bit about the job
market for this field in The Netherlands: for starting junior programmers
it's reasonably tough (although it's better than a year ago). So the
following notes are probably biased to that market.

First, nobody wants just any programmer. They want a programmer that
understands their customers. This means that besides programming skills,
you'll need knowledge of stock markets, government procedures, or whatever
knowledge they use.

Second, make sure what you do is needed where you are (or want to be).
You've probably heard about the outsourcing hype in the USA, and I thik
it's spreading. So find something that is difficult to do across
language/culture barriers: customization. Combined with rapid development,
this is a powerfull tool.

And if you're starting, it's still tough: many employers ask for a minimum
of three years of job experience in IT. Combine that with the often
difficult deadlines, and ask yourself this question: is this a hobby you'd
do daily? If not: don't bother getting paid for it, as it'll drain you. If
it is: dedication is rewarded, inaction is not.

 

[David Segall]

I am interested in beginning a career in this field. Does anyone have
some helpful hints or suggestions for a junior programmer?

Ever since I started programming 40 years ago my advice when asked
this question has been the same. Get a recognised qualification in a
field that interests you. Then add a one year post-graduate
programming qualification. There is not really enough content in
Information Technology or Computer Science courses to justify spending
three years on them. Furthermore, you will not have the respect of
your Accounting, Engineering, Librarian, Scientific or Legal
colleagues unless your qualifications match theirs.

But wait, there's more! If computers learn to write all the programs
that are needed you can still sell yourself as a practitioner in your
chosen field.

Of course, you might be as lucky as I have been and make a good living
from programming without any qualifications at all. Unless you already
have written some successful programs I would not risk this.

 

[Wiseguy]

Ever since I started programming 40 years ago my advice when asked
this question has been the same. Get a recognised qualification in a
field that interests you. Then add a one year post-graduate
programming qualification. There is not really enough content in
Information Technology or Computer Science courses to justify spending
three years on them.

there is if it is a real math/engineering based comp sci program...the
problem is too many tech schools that think you teach a kid java or c++
and they are ready to write code. the majority of coders these days seem
to know nothing about advanced structures, proof of concept, or system
integration issues...because they were taught that all that is important is
knowing how to program in some languages and how to set up a relational db.

Furthermore, you will not have the respect of
your Accounting, Engineering, Librarian, Scientific or Legal
colleagues unless your qualifications match theirs.

Unfortunately far too true. I know more about geo-physics/cartography/remote-
sensing than most of my peers but I don't have a degree in that so I'm not
taken seriously except by a key few who know me.

But wait, there's more! If computers learn to write all the programs
that are needed you can still sell yourself as a practitioner in your
chosen field.

Assuming that your chosen field isn't bastardized into a minimum wage
profession.

Of course, you might be as lucky as I have been and make a good living
from programming without any qualifications at all. Unless you already
have written some successful programs I would not risk this.

Good advise...better advise is NOT to get into comp sci at all...

 

[Bob]

Unfortunately far too true. I know more about geo-physics/cartography/remote-
sensing than most of my peers but I don't have a degree in that so I'm not
taken seriously except by a key few who know me.

I don't think a degree implies much about knowledege at all. I think it
implies more about how hard someone is willing to work, and I think
employers know that.

A first class degree says to me that someone is able to revise for
weeks, has a short-term memory like a RAM bank, can go without sleep to
meet project deadlines, will forego personal time and weekends, and will
give their all to the end result. I don't think it necessarily means
that they are inherently talented in the field of their degree, but when
employers sniff someone that is prepared to work their ass off, they get
excited.

I have a lower-second class degree, which says to employers: works to
his own time, does not like deadlines, will not forego personal time for
commercial projects, and does not like being given orders. So after
spending five years at university, I'm basically not wanted as far as
graduate positions go, and haven't got the commercial experience to get
into even jobs that describe themselves as "junior", whether or not I
could master the role in the space of a month.

So if you do know what you're talking about in those fields, tell your
colleagues they can stick their degree where it's real dark. They'll be
good at following orders.

 

[Scott Ellsworth]

I don't think a degree implies much about knowledege at all. I think it
implies more about how hard someone is willing to work, and I think
employers know that.

I tend to ignore someone's degree, as a rule, unless it is germane to
the job. We do biotech work, more than not, so some bio classes are a
plus. Bio 101 is not going to let you talk to the research scientists
as an equal in their field, but it means that you do know the basics.

Having a degree can show some ability to get to a goal, and some ability
to pass classes. How much of that depends on you, and and on the school.

I try to get to that underlying information by asking about hard
problems, projects that nearly failed, and projects that did fail. How
you answer says a lot about how you see work, projects, coding, and
other people. It is kinda fluffy, I admit, but it gives us something to
discuss during the interview while we try to answer the real questions -
will you fit in, will you contribute, and what do you bring that I do
not already have.

A first class degree says to me that someone is able to revise for
weeks, has a short-term memory like a RAM bank, can go without sleep to
meet project deadlines, will forego personal time and weekends, and will
give their all to the end result. I don't think it necessarily means
that they are inherently talented in the field of their degree, but when
employers sniff someone that is prepared to work their ass off, they get
excited.

Depends - I find most people with PhD degrees unhirable, because they
tend to be prima donnas. On the other hand, two of the best designers I
have ever met have their PhD, and they produce wonderful designs,
wonderful code, and are willing to spend a day installing windows or
swapping hard drives if that is what it takes to get the project done.
They have skill, humility, and self confidence. This puts them head and
shoulders above most other people I know.

Of course, a third person I know who meets all of the above criteria
dropped out of a Master's program on moral grounds. He felt that the
school was wasting a donor's money.

I have a lower-second class degree, which says to employers: works to
his own time, does not like deadlines, will not forego personal time for
commercial projects, and does not like being given orders.

I suspect it is you, not your degree, that is making this statement.
You clearly feel strongly about it, and I bet it comes out.

This is not a bad thing, just something to be very aware of, and to
craft your pitch around. For example, if you come across as someone who
can build a plan that does not involve a last minute crunch, you will
make your clients or bosses happy. They are no fonder of deadlines and
the associated risk than you are, but many feel it is unavoidable. Show
them a way to avoid it, and you get points.

On time and under budget is worth a bunch, primarily because it is hard.

Scott

 

[Joona I Palaste]

Depends - I find most people with PhD degrees unhirable, because they
tend to be prima donnas. On the other hand, two of the best designers I
have ever met have their PhD, and they produce wonderful designs,
wonderful code, and are willing to spend a day installing windows or
swapping hard drives if that is what it takes to get the project done.
They have skill, humility, and self confidence. This puts them head and
shoulders above most other people I know.

Our company has one PhD, and while he gets along with everyone just
fine, it's clear that he has well over a decade of experience with
older programming languages and much less in Java. The terminology he
uses is so different from established Java terminology that it's
difficult to understand what he means.