It does not look good for Target. Web Accessibility news

[SpaceGirl]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:48:09 GMT
Andy Dingley scribed:


Probably because it's _not_ that easy to produce and only argumentally
possible in the first place. In one of his more lucid moments, Onideus
sent me to some url (probably Adobe) which had stuff on how to make Flash
"entities". I got dizzy just looking at it. Sure, maybe if I were a kid
just starting out, I might "jump into the fray" so to speak, but it isn't
simple by any means. Furthermore, it's still proprietary no matter how you
sugar-coat it.

Proprietary is not always bad though. Look at the mess of the browser
market - not ONE browser meets the specifications the browser
manufactures agreed. Even worse than that, each implements most of the
standards slightly differently. Flash works the same everywhere, on
almost all platforms. If only Open software could even come close to
that. This is the problem though: There are a lot of very smart geeks in
the world and they all have their own arrogant belief that their way is
best, without actually thinking about Users. This is another reason why
so much OS software is horrible to look at. Created by programmers, who
can only think like programmers.

Average folks aren't programmers - or designers for that matter.

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[SpaceGirl]

You know me (sort of), and I recently had to do this when I was visiting
friends in Castaic (and had to wipe out their computer). I was
attempting to get the train schedule - I could get it, but it was very
hard to read (the schedule is just badly done, no one but the folks at
Metrolink seem to understand it). I use the Internet on my phone to get
phone numbers instead of calling 411 and getting charged some ridiculous
amount. It's not something that I would want to do all the time.


On a brighter note - the boss called me (whilst on vacation) and
announced that everyone was going to be surfing on their phone, and so I
had to do whatever I could to get the site ready for phones. I called
her back in a few minutes and told her it already was. Then I told her
this was one of the reasons I was such a B---H about valid, semantic
code, and NOT opening off site links in new windows. I said "Wha da ya
gonna do, open up a new PHONE?" Smile. Now, I just have to get her
weaned off IE6.

LOL cute.

Well my phone has tabbed browsing, and I use it quite a lot when out and
about (often to much hassle to get out my laptop).

In a few weeks my nice iPhone comes... this will probably dramatically
increase the amount of time I spend surfing on the go. It has unlimited
bandwidth and no data charges, unlike my current phone.

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[SpaceGirl]

Openwave® Phone Simulator 7.0, Version 7.0.107, is a
Windows-based application. And, for my Mac, thar's the rub. But I
suppose I could look to installing it on a Win box I have. Thanks
for this. I have it bookmarked.

Adobe Creative Suite 3... all the apps in that (PhotoShop etc) now have
a Phone emulator built in, so you can design UIs in Ilustrator, Flash or
PhotoShop that will work on whatever handsets you choose. There are
1000s in the library that ships with the suite. The applet that ships
with it is called Adobe Device Central.

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[SpaceGirl]

Text messaging is not email. A lot of people I know use their phone for
text messaging. No one uses it for email. Those who need a mobile
email device (like my wife) have a blackberry.

SMS (text messages) are sent via IP these days. That's the Internet.

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[SpaceGirl]

Ben C wrote: [...]
As more people start to browse the web on phones (for which it has to
become a bit cheaper, but it will) designers will start testing their
sites more on phone browsers and it will all start to work better.

There is also the argument that in Europe people like to talk to their
friends on their phones, not play games, watch cartoons, or browse the
web. But this argument now falls down as people have started using the
web mainly to talk to their (so-called) friends anyway.
Sure, the same is true over here.

Wherever over there is... It's in Japan that some of that gimmicky stuff
on phones actually caught on.

The U.S.

I was thinking of things like FaceBook, not instant messaging. Part of
what "Web 2.0" consists of is porting good old internet things, like
email, instant messaging and discussion groups, to the web.

Which haven't caught on at all. No one I know accesses facebook, etc.
from a cell phone. Neither do they do any of the rest.

Those who need that access have blackberrys and wireless pda's. Some
even have wireless cards for their laptops. But no one I know is
accessing the web from their cell phones - at least not with any
regularity.

-yet-. Now that large screen format phones, such as the iPhone are
around, with unlimited data contracts by default + free wifi, we're
going to see an explosion in mobile browsing I think. Everyone is
rushing to copy the iPhone feature for feature. There are 5 or 6 similar
"web" phones out this Christmas, and most networks (in Europe anyway)
are bundling unrestricted web access & unlimited data contracts with
these phones. This is a HUGE market change. Until now, very few networks
offered uncapped data rates unless you were on a business contract.


--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[SpaceGirl]

Excuse me for being a bit unknowing since I don't have a cell phone, don't
plan to get one, and never have used one for the Net, but despite how the
site renders, isn't it just a little hard to operate said phone in said
mode with all them little buttons and such? The few times I've used
someone's phone for a call, I've experienced problems with the buttons
reacting to pushing, just hitting the right button you want, and other
micro-anomolia like that.

Many phones don't have ANY buttons these days, so the "size" is
irrelevant. It's part of the phones OS and often can be adjusted. The
buttons are virtual, drawn on the screen.

But then I'm a girl, and I have small hands, so I really never had
problems typing on my regular Sony phone either (okay, I'll admit it...
I have 2 cellphones and about to get a 3rd).

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[dorayme]

I am saying since he is not a flash developer his statement is
irrelevant. Answer this, who can run a 5K faster? You or me?


I never said it was not a lousy application for Flash. (I do think it
looks nice though)


Please find where I have EVER said Flash is good for everything. I
have repeated time and time again (Ask dorayme) that you should only
use it when it is appropriate.

I can confirm this. But this motherhood statement is just one of
a whole nest of them that Travis gets off the shelf for these
discussions. Here is another: that if using it makes money, that
is ok. And another: if using it does not make money, the free
market will come riding to the rescue of us all and kill the sob
thing dead and it will be replaced by competitors...

It is terrible, I have a whole hard disk full of Travis's
collection (not his fault, I just hoard and collect stuff...)

 

[SpaceGirl]

And have your babies, grow old(er) together, sort though the 4x6
prints of life... aw shucks, I am such a sucker for a love
story...

Look, I don't want to rain on your parade but be prepared for
your kids to *choose* dialup, block all but text, be sighted but
*still* go for a voice reader in an act of rebellion...

The chances are slim though... unless you happen to live out in the sticks.

There will always be some people who refuse to move with technology, and
it can happen with a snap of a finger. Suddenly left behind, not
understanding what folks are talking about, sliding out of society

Mehehe doomed I say, doomed!!!

Just kidding


--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[dorayme]

I prefer girls, but thanks for the offer

Travis, don't give up. First go see 'Normal' Tom Wilkinson,
Jessica Lange...

 

[SpaceGirl]

Travis, don't give up. First go see 'Normal' Tom Wilkinson,
Jessica Lange...

LOL

Now now, Dorayme, put the scissors down sweetie...

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

"This site" being http://www.mortgagenews2.com, for the benefit of
anyone jumping into the thread at this point.

that little hurdle, I managed to register and log in. In order to
check prices, I had to actually create an advertising campaign -
there's no price list.

Now there's a killer of a bad idea IMO. Personally I despise sites where
your must register just to get basic information, list rate and prices.
Slam the font door and lock...great business practice!

 

[dorayme]

Adobe Creative Suite 3... all the apps in that (PhotoShop etc) now have
a Phone emulator built in, so you can design UIs in Ilustrator, Flash or
PhotoShop that will work on whatever handsets you choose. There are
1000s in the library that ships with the suite. The applet that ships
with it is called Adobe Device Central.

Something to look forward to then... have not got to latest
versions...

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

To that list I add:
Any web video
Any simulation
Any image/audio/video synchronization
Any time you need the application screen to be exactly the same on
every system (GREAT for intranet web applications such as the LMS I
built for Siemens)
Banner ads
Anything that needs to be interactive (Filling in a form is not what I
classify as this type of interactive)
and of course, games and simple eye-candy

What it's not good for:
Complete websites
text based information site (like, but not limited to sites like
google)
menus/navigation

We are in agreement there Travis.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Travis Newbury wrote:

I disagree, and this is exactly what I was arguing. Flash COULD be used
for ANY of those... it depends on context - meaning the audience, the
content etc...

And that's where I strongly disagree. That's when a website gets really
frustrating really fast.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Nah, that's just dumb. If they designed the web site without CSS, it'd
be the same. They'd have to add it.

Just as you can apply CSS to HTML documents, you can apply CSS documents
to Flash content.

To get some insight I traversed your sig links.

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

Not sure are they are solely just splash pages, or do they employ some
mysterious navigational method that eludes me?

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Jerry Stuckle wrote:



No it's not, not without engineering your site in a particular way. Same
goes for a Flash site.

Not true. Absolutely plain HTML markup with no CSS or special
"engineering" is accessible by default! A screen reader can read it, a
text-only browser can access it, a cell phone can display it, anyone can
adjust the font-size to suit both resolution and viewport, and a robot
can index it.

 

[Jerry Stuckle]

I disagree, and this is exactly what I was arguing. Flash COULD be used
for ANY of those... it depends on context - meaning the audience, the
content etc...

Sure, and you can use a sledge hammer to drive a screw. But that
doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job.

--
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Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
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[Jerry Stuckle]

Of course it's irrelevant. He has no clue how to create a Flash so
how could he possibly be able to compare the time to create a site
using both methods?

Bullshit. Tell me he's wrong. And prove it.

Anyone can have an opinion about anything. Including him. You evade
the question and try to call it irrelevant. So the only assumption
anyone can make is that it is true.

It is exactly the same as answering my question who runs a 5K faster,
you or me. You can not answer that because you have no idea how fast
I can run.

Nope, and quite frankly, I don't care. And it has nothing to do with
the discussion at hand.

So what. Again, irrelevant. "Is that Blond pretty? Redheads can be
pretty too...

A typical troll - always trying to change the subject when you don't
have a good response.

So again, I'm right.

--
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Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
(e-mail address removed)
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[Jerry Stuckle]

SMS (text messages) are sent via IP these days. That's the Internet.

While you can send an SMS message from the internet to a phone, that's
an interface from the internet to the phones. Most text messaging is
directly between two phones and never touches the internet. It follows
a similar path that regular phone calls do - and those don't go over the
internet.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
(e-mail address removed)
==================

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:18:58
GMT dorayme scribed:

Are you meaning to deny outright that I grew 120 lbs of wonderful
tomatoes in a Melbourne backyard in the 1960s?

Nope, I would never deny your tomatoes.

My sence of gramer
and ligoc tells me you are so denying this. Now, where is that
Officer White, i have new harsh instructions for him...

It might be wise to base your conclusions on other criteria.